As a Toronto hockey fan, and that's where this podcast is based out of, Saturday night was heartbreak. If you don't watch hockey, I won't even explain it to you. Just Google Toronto Maple Leaps and laugh. But Sunday was a day of joy because the other team that I root for, personally, that never wins, wanted second race in 12 years. Lando Norris, with his very first career victory, Tim Horeani was there. Tim, tell Tell me about the Miami Grand Prix. Where do you want to start?

Adam, I just want to hear more of your fandam, actually, for a bit because it's a big thing for you, though. It's huge, right? Because you're a McLaren fan. Emotional weekend.

Yeah, you're a McLaren fan as long as I've known you.

So it was a big week, a big win for your guy.

It was huge. And I'm thrilled. I'm just running off my phone because it's buzzing and it's going to bother me. But yeah, you know what? Honestly, Tim, watching it on TV, and I know being down at the race is completely different. Watching it on TV, I think it was surprising when Lando got past Max, and then there was the safety car, and there was the spread, and then it shortened up. But Lando pulling away right away was one of the most surprising things. It was like, what, lap 25, 30, something like that. I said to my wife, I'm like, he's pulling away. I figured within a couple of laps, Max would have him just based on DRS alone. But once he got a second clear, it was like, okay. Then it And a couple of laps later, he's two and a half seconds clear, and you're like, Is he going to do this? And obviously, the last time I thought, Is he going to do this? Was Sochi. And I remember that race, and I remember the rain, and I remember he didn't switch to Slicks, and it was so heartbreaking. And he finished out of the points.

It was just brutal. And so all that is to say, you don't know until it's done. But it was a very, very happy moment in our household because we're big McLaren fans. And I thought it was so cool to to see how the other drivers reacted. There was not a single driver who was upset by that result. They were all like, Oh, this is great. We're so thrilled for him, which is a max for stopping, especially when Max wins, he's more happy when Lando wins.

Yeah, I think Max told me in the media pan because I'd ask him about it because I was basically just asking him, Hey, you and Lando are good friends. This win. Did you get a chance to talk to him or congratulate him at all? What did you say? He just basically said that if anyone was going to beat him, he said he was happy that it was Lando who beat him because it's his friend and it's a driver he's always wanted to race up against in Formula One because they are so close. But yeah, for Max, he was super... I thought he was going to be a little pissed when I went to interview him, but he was jovial. He actually was legit happy for Lando. Usually, obviously, drivers don't like to get beaten, and obviously, Max doesn't want to get beaten. But he actually was legit happy for the guy.

When they interviewed him afterwards, the comment about if my mom had balls, she'd be my dad, and what happened with the pylon? He's like, I didn't like it, so I took it out. I'm like, Where's this comedian coming from, Max? Obviously, you've always said on this show that he's actually a pretty easy guy to deal with and great with the media and always pretty direct. But it was funny to see his sense of humor come out with just by himself. You can usually just see it with Daniel Ricardo.

Yeah, he's great. Yeah, no, he's great. I like it because Max always gives you He basically tells you what he's thinking. Being on the other side, obviously, the microphone, it's refreshing to hear that, Adam, because you can actually have a conversation with him when you're interviewing him. So, yeah, on Thursday, I got to talk to him about Adrian Newey, and we talked about it on this podcast already. But just the directness you can be with him. He knows. He knows what you're looking for. He knows that you want to talk about it, and he'll give you what he's thinking, which is great. It's not rehearsed, I guess, is essentially what I'm trying to say. A long way about saying it.

Well, I think that is what makes it so much fun when something like this happens. What do you attribute the driver reaction to Lando winning to? Because you do see drivers from time to time get their first win. I've never seen an outpouring like that.

Yeah, he's a popular I figure at him in the paddock, right? All the drivers seem to like him. He's very social that way as well. I mean, he does like to tease some drivers. I mean, even Daniel had some really nice things to say about him to us in the media pen. So too, Fernando Alonso even did as well. So did Lewis. Lewis even came in and gave him a hug when we were in the media bullpen. It was just right across from us. I tried to get my phone out in time to take a picture of it, but I missed it. But it's just that alone. It's like the two British drivers embracing each other is a pretty big thing because they're They compete under the same flag, but at the same time, you don't necessarily want to be buddies with your countrymen. It was nice to see. Lewis is great that way, I find, when it comes to- He's always gracious. Yeah, gracious is a good word. He's always been really great like that. It's a nice touch. It's nice to see. I think just Lando being such a popular figure in and around F1 and the amount of negativity that gets put towards him that he can't win or he's never going to win.

He silenced a lot of people on Sunday. That's a huge, huge, huge thing. I think moving forward, if we look at McLaren as a whole, the upgrade package that they brought is... I talked to Charlotte Claire about this, and He was telling me it's no joke. The upgrade that they brought for the Miami Grand Prix, he said, That's the real deal. He's like, What they've got there is something really huge. And a few other teams had said the same thing where it's mechanically Like mechanical engineering, so springs, shocks, dampers, all that stuff. They're very, very strong. They just need to add a bit more downforce to the car, and they'll be right up there with Red Bull. They have a really great baseline of performance. Now that they've added all of this downforce to the car for this particular weekend and then moving on into the future as well, they're really happy with what they've seen. Zack Brown wouldn't tell me how much performance they got from it. He was pretty coy on that matter when I pressed him about it, and I respect that. I really want to know.

Well, I think the other thing, Tim, is just the fact that... And I was reading about the McLaren upgrades today a little bit just in prep for the show. And what people have said is that this is... Mclaren views this as the baseline. So this is the start of the next set of this car. So they've got this baseline down, and they're going to build on this. And I'm working my way through Adrian Newey's book very quickly here. And it's very interesting when you read Adrian Newey's book, because one of the things that as a fan, Tim, this would come second nature to you. But for me, it's like, okay, obviously, I didn't think that they scrapped a car and built it and rebuilt it every year. But how they choose what to build on is so often what makes or breaks the championship. And I think what's been amazing with Red Bull is they seem to have figured out, unlocked something in their car last year that sped it up, got them podiums. I think Piastri won a sprint race, things like that. And then this year, we We get a real race win and nothing against the sprint race.

It was awesome this weekend. Then from here, it seems like this year it's going to be Red Bull, mostly, but Ferrari McLaren duking it out for second place. We could have, Tim, on certain weekends, a real fight for first place.

100%. We definitely will, Adam. Like I said before the season even got started, but we have to wait. Red Bull was going to come out with an advantage. They still do have an advantage. But as we get to different tracks, we are going to see different teams that have different strengths really push Red Bull and put pressure on them for race victories. Once team When you start bringing bigger upgrades, and I had said this before, once you get to Race 8, 9, do a little bit of the European lag, you're going to see these teams bring massive updates. Ferrari has one coming for Imala. Then you're really going to start to see start to see things shrink, that gap in the race. Now, it's not necessarily qualifying, Adam, that we're looking at. We're looking at race performance. And this past weekend, we saw that from McLaren. They were fast in the race. They didn't have the greatest qualifying car, but they had an incredible race car, and that was the goal for them. I mean, for this weekend, just this car alone, new front wing, new front suspension, front corner, so cooling of the brakes, floor body, The whole floor, side pod, inlet, engine cover, all the side pod, the entire entire thing, cooling louvers, whole new rear suspension, rear corner, so break cooling inlet, beam wing, brand new beam wing.

That's basically almost like a B-spec car. That's a huge, huge update. This is something, Adam, that I think they wanted to start the season with, but since it was going to be so big and they knew the direction that they were going in was the right that they didn't want to screw it up. They wanted to make sure that once they unleashed it, it was going to work just as it's supposed to work. Instead of bringing small components here, there, or whatever, or rush it to get it out for Berraine, they actually took their time with it. And honestly, Adam, I think they've really got something here that's definitely going to put Ferrari under pressure for sure. And then we'll see what Ferrari brings, but there is going to be Race Weekend where Max Verstaaben is not going to win. It's just he won't. I mean, this weekend, Adam, Carlos Sainz was probably the one who was on for victory, I would say, if that safety car hadn't come out.

Yeah. And I think so.

And if he hadn't gotten a penalty, and if he hadn't gotten a penalty.

Yeah. No, I think we totally get you on that. I think what's fascinating, too, is if the two people that got hugged last, which were the two notable names, Zack Brown and Andrea Stella. I want to talk about the turnaround of McLaren a little bit because McLaren were the... You can go back to even, if you want to go basic, drive to survive. The first season, when they talk about McLaren, it's like, well, we don't have a great car, and we've got this legendary driver, and we're trying to give him a car so he'll stay. And that is that legendary driver is Fernando Alonso, and they can't get anything going with the engine that they had. And That car, if you go back, and McLaren cars now are just tattooed with sponsors, right? Oh, yeah. They're sponsors everywhere. But you go back and you look at that car right after the Kevin Magnuson era, basically, and the Fernando Alonso comes back to McLaren era, I think it's post-Ferrari. That car is orange and open, orange and blue and no sponsors. And so business-wise, they were a mess. Aero-wise, they hadn't recovered from probably since right after the Lewis Hamilton era.

Yeah, I agree with that.

And so this is the crazy thing, Tim, is it takes forever to turn this stuff around. And they've had ups. They finished third in 2020, I believe. And then they've had some down stuff where not finishing where they want to be. But this feels like a massive turnaround, not only financially for them, which has been occurring for a while, but the But the Aero Department and the sharpness of the team, and they regularly win fastest pit stop. And you know what I mean? The list goes on and on and on.

And then also, Adam, I think behind the scenes, Ron Dennis and the a call out from that and him out of the team. And then you've got Zack. Zack's getting an offer from F1 to run it. And then he's also getting an offer from McLaren to run them. And at the end of the day, he takes the McLaren offer, and it's taken him a really long time. There was that one point, Adam, I would say in 2020, where that team was close to folding. We almost lost McLaren for good during the pandemic. They were almost gone. I think when we take a look at just how much work this team has done behind the scenes and how much that Zack Brown has changed the culture and how long that's taken to change the culture and bringing in the right people that have a team first mentality. If you take a look at some of the team principles he's brought in, I think Gavin Ward is a perfect example. He's a team guy. He's good at building a culture. I think Andrea Stella is the same way. I think Andrea Seidl was the same way as well.

Just bringing in people who are going to build a culture, have a plan, execute the plan, give everybody a trajectory to work towards, and then Zack's out there trying to get the money and the sponsorships to build up the team's financials as well at the same time. And so a ton of work gone into this one. I think for this team moving forward, it really just seems like they got the pieces in the right places, this new technical structure that we've talked about on this pod before in the past, that they've got set up that runs obviously runs through Andrea Stella at the end of the day. They really haven't skipped a beat. I think the only real black mark against them is probably just not being prepared at the beginning of seasons. But by the time they get a few races in or five races in, and they're upgrading the car, they're bringing up big upgrades. That's for me when I take a look at this team where things have really changed. It's just really behind the-scene stuff with this team.

One of the great moments from the Grand Prix, Tim, was Fred Vasseur putting on a McLaren hat and sprang Lando with champagne. Very funny.

It was awesome. I was right there when it was going on. You were there? Yeah, man. Yeah, I was there. He's wild.

I love him. I don't know another Ferrari team principal that got away with that.

No, I don't.

No, it's just his personal It's a personality, right? Yeah. I think you can do that when you're probably about to sign Adrian Newey and you've already pulled on Lewis Hamilton. I think you can do stuff like that. The Ferrari Blues, by the way, look good on everybody. I really like that look. But what was interesting is reading his interviews today and him saying by Imola, We're going to have a car that's going to compete with Red Bull every day, because it does put pressure on Ferrari. As much as he's in there, goofing off and having a good time, he knows that, Okay, so Mercedes has fallen a little bit this year. They'll probably be back. Aston Martin could always be ascended in any time. And McLaren right now, they're in the rear view mirror. They're not that close, but they could close that gap pretty quickly. And it's a shame Piaastri didn't finish in the points because they could have probably gained a little bit on Ferrari. But end of the day, if that car keeps performing like that, that's two very solid drivers, and Ferrari could be a little bit under threat, I would think.

Also, their goal is not to finish second.

No, not at all. That's the thing, Adam. I did actually... I pressed... So we did a one-on-one with Frederick Vasseur after Saturday's qualifying, and he was nice enough to take the time to come and actually do a one-on-one with us on TV following Formula One qualifying. And big thanks to Ferrari for hooking me up with that because we had a great chat with him. But I pressed him on that specific subject of what he's thinking that this upgrade for Imala. And I said, is the goal here to just finish second or is the goal here to compete against Red Bull and try and win this Constructors' Championship? Because I said, right now, Sergio looks to be struggling just a tiny bit here in Miami, and we don't know what his future is going to look like within Red Bull and how is that going to affect what he's doing over there. And that puts them at risk in a way with the Constructors' Championship. He was trying to temper expectations at him, just really trying to calm... But I could just see it in his face that he wanted to say, We're coming for first place.

That's what we're doing. We're not backing down. Again, with the behind-the-scenes stuff, when we take a look at Ferrari, and we've talked about Mattia Banotto at that team, and before that, all the other, Maurizio Arriva bene, and all of the... Just that team as a whole, just too much interference from the top of Ferrari bleeding down into the Scuderia. I think that Frédéric Vasseur is that shield that protects everyone in the race team so they can just go focus on racing, focus on building a fast race car. Fred will handle the people above him because he's at heart a racer. He's always been involved in racing. And I think that, Adam, that's huge. Now, when you take a look at teams, You can see that the team principals are now starting to become folks who were involved in racing their whole lives in some form or fashion. And that's usually the team principals that are being put on the teams now. I think having a guy like Fred at Ferrari, it's a slow ship to turn, Adam, but like, wow, has he really gone 90 degrees really quickly with that thing?

Well, And he's brought in some big names, and obviously it remains to be seen if they perform. But if Adrian knew he is, in fact, going to Ferrari, the reality is that everywhere he's gone, he's performed. And we outlined the amount of championships he has. That doesn't include some of the drivers' championships where they didn't get constructors. That also doesn't include times where he finished second or third, because that Hacken and Schumacher rivalry was pretty serious. It was a great rivalry, and he was a big part of the cars that made that rivalry possible. Well, and Tim, I think when it comes to dealing with a Corporation, because that's where Ferrari is, what I think is so amazing about what Fred Vasseur has done with Ferrari, I think Total Wolf has done a good job with it with Mercedes as well. Aston Martin is less involved. Is there not a works team in the traditional sense? They're a brand, but it's not their engine. I look at a team like what Bruno Faman has to deal with with Alpine I see the look on your face. And literally, the reason that Otmar is gone is because there was a board switch, essentially, like a switch in opinion, and he was gone.

And so Bruno Faman has run a rally team before, but never to the... You look at Fred Vasseur, was it F3, F2? He was Lewis Hamilton's team principal. This guy is well-accomplished, and you're looking and you're seeing the results, and it feels... I mean, He took over 18 months ago, but it feels almost instant how much of an impact you can make with a big brand. With the resources and money and reach that Renault has with Alpine, it doesn't make sense that they're here. Although when you look down under the cover, it does. You make such a great point, Tim, in saying that the way corporate people work and the way race teams work are completely different, and you need somebody to translate that language.

Yeah. You need someone to separate. Yeah, you need someone to separate it, right? You need to make sure that the corporation is not getting involved with the racing side because it can really take a team and steer it in a wrong direction, and they can really screw things up when they get involved. So that's why you need racing people who are running the ships. They may not be the greatest PR savvy, whatever you want, but are they getting the job. They will get the job done that needs to get done. That's the most important thing. I mean, even look at Mike crack, coming over from DTM. That's a guy running Aston Martin now who's steeped in racing. He is racing. He's done a remarkable job out of going from Force India at a racing point and switching it to Aston Martin and them coming fired out of a cannon at the beginning of last season. There's a big thing to say to have racing people leading the teams. Same thing goes with McLaren, Andre Stella. He's a Formula One guy through and through. He's an engineer. He knows an F1 car inside and out. You've got Zack Derrick and former race car driver.

Then turned into marketing for racing. Now, obviously, the CEO of McLaren. That's just the way it works in motorsports. I think for Ferrari, it's a good thing that they've got a guy like Frederick who are there. It is. It's smart. Adam, I'm excited for Imala. I'm excited to see what happens.

I want to know. Because either way, it's a story, Tim.

Whether it's good or it's bad, it's a story. It's a story.

It's in front of Italian fans. Oh, man, I'm so excited. We're going to have Gavin Ward on soon, and I want to talk about the McLaren stuff, but also what it's like to be in a position where you're so close to first, and then you got somebody so close on your tail who wants your second place. I think it's just... It's awesome. I love this.

I love this. That's great.

The sport is amazing. The sport is amazing. And I was actually, by the way, I was DMing Gavin because he was watching the Leaps game, too. So just saying.

Of course he was.

Gavin's on board. Gavin's on board with heartbreak.

Gavin's on board with heartbreak.

Let's talk about the rest of the field here. I think obviously, Max... Sergio didn't have a great day. He He admitted that in his Instagram post and his interviews, whatever. I don't think that Max had the best day either. They did find some damage on the floor. Not surprising. Car just wasn't turning the way he wanted it to. And it's amazing because he's still in second, right? With a car he's uncomfortable with, the fact that he was able to put it where he put it. I mean, who challenged him all day except for Lando? Nobody.

Well, I think eventually Carlos would have been in the mix there. I think Charles would have been in the mix, too, in the second stint. I honestly think Ferrari probably would have had one of their drivers pushing Verstape in for the win. If we didn't get the safety car and Max didn't get any damage to the car, I'd still think it could have been close. I think it could have been a Ferrari victory. But I mean, he wasn't... Max wasn't happy with the car all weekend, and you could see that he just wasn't comfortable at all. You could see it in Free Practice One. He had lockups everywhere, squirrely with the car. He had trouble keeping the power down when he needed to keep it down. Then same thing goes for qualifying. He was actually shocked when he got in a poll. He didn't He didn't think he was even good enough to get pulled this weekend. He thought he was going to get beaten. So that's when you heard that team radio. He's like, What? We got a pole? No one else beat me? What the hell? He couldn't even believe it. I think a lot of us couldn't because I thought he was going to get beaten as well.

For him, Adam, it's impressive to watch him work. Man, he's like a frigging surgeon sometimes. He just goes out and just kicks a whole bunch of ass, comes in, wash, rinse, repeat. But this weekend, the team bringing just a small little upgrade for car. Again, they haven't had a massive, massive, massive upgrade either, and we're not sure as to what their plans are with that just at the moment. But I think they brought an upgrade to the floor edge, and that was pretty much it. But Sergio is a bit of a concern, I think, this weekend, too. I mean, he was off the pace this weekend. That seat at Red Bull, right? That second seat at Red Bull is open.

And it's rumor that Carlos is not going to sign with Audi now.

Yeah, that's what I heard as well. Do you think that that's true? Yes. I think he possibly could not sign there. I think for Carlos, man, it's just he wants to go somewhere where he can win. I'm still going with my Mercedes call on this one. I'm still sticking with that. I just I just don't see him going back to Red Bull. But looking at Daniel Riccardo and Yuki Sonoda, I mean, man, Yuki was great this weekend. So was Daniel. He was great. Daniel was up and down. He was phenomenal. Daniel was up and down. But I think for Daniel, he now understands, and speaking with him this weekend, it sounds like he understands what exactly he's doing wrong and what exactly he needs from the car. It It just seems like he knows the directions that he's going in. I spoke with Laurent Mekis, too, the team principal, and he's actually pretty happy with what Daniel's doing and the progression that he's making. They're happy with where he's going with things, as long as he's not going out there and crashing cars. That's the thing for them.

And that P4, Tim, was pretty massive. Yeah, it was. He raced really, really well. It's so funny because that morning sprint race, to go from that to a bizarre qualifying where it just didn't come together for him, the lap he put together on that sprint quality was amazing. It was amazing. It really was.

No, it was. And I think also he probably, I think, could have qualified a little bit better for the main Grand Prix. Actually, qualifying was a weird session for everyone, not just Daniel Ricardo. But it really seems like there was a massive spike, not only track temperature. But I think that affected the soft tire that he was running because he said as soon as he took it out for that final push lap to try and get himself into the next round of qualifying, he said immediately he just felt it sliding all over the place. It was just almost like the track temperature had gone up so much that it had heated the surface of the tire way too much. And that was actually something I was speaking with a technical director about this for an F1 team over the weekend, and they had made mention of some of the issues they were having with the tires because of the track surface and just how much it was heating up, the asphalt that they had used in Miami and how much of the heat it conducts. And they were saying they were reading, getting temperatures well over 50 degrees.

And that heating the tires was not so much thermal degradation, but external degradation is something that actually really caught them off guard with the temperatures here. And I think that was one of the things that really caught Daniel out.

Well, it does happen. It seems like that car, though, is something else. What Yuki Sonoda was able to do with it on Sunday.

Tricky car. Yeah, it also performs. It does perform. It does. But it's like that we were mentioning earlier, trying to get the car in the sweet spot. For them, it's the same thing, I think, Adam, where it's like they're trying to figure out where is that sweet spot with the for each track that they go to.

Right. And they have to... It's not a car that's going to be generally good, right? Exactly. They need to really set it up properly. Yeah, 100 %. But credit to them because that was the worst car in the grid last year. It really is. It's a vast improvement for them. I want to talk about Kevin Magnuson. Just catching strays all weekend long, defending hard to the point of just madness in the sprint race with Nico Halkenberg, and then doing it again in the main race. I mean, what did he have? Almost a minute in penalties?

I lost count after 30 seconds.

Yeah. Between the two races, it's got to be close to 40, 50 seconds here. And that is just massive time. But this seems to me like a guy who would really like to retain his spot next year and is playing team ball and is saying, Listen, I think you got a rookie coming next year. Let me be the guy that can protect him. Watch me protect Nico, who has raced really, really well for us. And if it's going to be Ollie Beermann, if Kevin Magnuson is willing to defend and to teach, he might be the guy that for the next couple of years is a good mentor.

Yeah. I mean, he was... Where should I start with this one? There were a lot of team principals, Adam, that I had spoken spoken with on Saturday.

They were thrilled. I thought they were thrilled.

Were not particularly happy with what Magnuson was doing. Why? I wonder why. He was setting the precedent, right? Right. And so what does the FIA do? That's the question is, do you bring him in? Do you sit him out for the rest of the race? Or do you just sit there and keep giving him 10 second time penalties? Yeah. And that's where we get all convoluted with the rule books and stuff like that. And look, I get that he's trying to protect for Hulkenberg so he can hold on to the point. I get all that. But I think it Where is the line that needs to be drawn? Can you just go off the track and hang on to your position? No, you have to give that up. I mean, you flew off the track, man. If there was a wall there, if there's grass, if there's gravel, you're done. That's the end of your race. It's over, buddy. Pack it in. So that is a major, major issue that the drivers are going to have to tackle at the next driver's briefing. And the FIA is going to have to be a little more aggressive, I think, with what it does if it notices that things like that are happening, because once you let one person get away with it, Adam, they're all going to start doing it.

Right. And they were pretty harsh. How many penalty points does he have? I think it's 10 now.

Oh, he's got 10 now. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's a lot. He got three more this weekend. It's significant.

I think he needs two more, and then that's a race ban. Race ban. That's a race ban, yeah.

Yeah. You never want to get a black and white flag either.

But that's the thing, though, Adam. It's like, where do you draw the line? What would you do? What would you do? I mean, think about this for a second. You've got a driver, again, like I said, just flying off the track, doing the most ridiculous things at some points, just to try and hold everybody up so his teammate can get away so they can hold on to some points. If you're the stewards, what do you do? Because I would have brought him in and I would have made him sit. I would have given him 10 seconds stop and go penalty.

Right. I think the next time I'm sure they warned him. I'm sure the next time if he does it again, because it's interrupting the race. It is. I know he's doing it for his career. I know he's driving guys nuts out there. I don't think that's ever bothered Kevin Magnuson. And there were some times he made a really weird choice, too, to try to pass somebody. I forget who it was on a chicane early in the race. Remember, there was... Well, it was Logan Sargent, wasn't it?

Yeah. I mean, and that was... I asked Logan about that. If he knew that Kevin was right up beside him like that. He's like, What did he say? I believe I'm paraphrasing here. He's like, I checked my mirrors when I came out of turn two. He's like, I knew that he was close, but I didn't know how close he actually was. So essentially, I'm going to go for the apex of turn three, which Logan should do, by the way. I think Logan's well within his rights. I don't know what the hell Kevin was thinking. I There was no way that was happening, man. There was no way. And that sucks for Logan, right? It really does.

He was dying for a good result.

Yeah, he's dying for good results. He had a good sprint race. I actually think with the amount of pressure that he had on his shoulders for Miami, he actually did a really good job. I mean, considering he outperformed Alex Alvin for most of the weekend, he actually had a really good weekend. And so, yeah, I felt bad for him. That took him completely out of the race. I honestly don't know what Kevin was thinking. It was just a rough weekend for Magnuson up and down, I think.

Do you think the team's happy with it, though?

I mean, if they're getting points, for sure, right? Because at the end of the day, we're talking tens of millions of dollars, It's like, we get one point, we get two points in Miami, whatever it turns out to be. I don't know. Huckerman didn't get a point in the main race, but he did get some this weekend. It's just like, Okay, well, what does add up to at the end of the season? Does Kevin's penalties that he accrued over Miami Grand Prix, does that outweigh tens of millions of dollars that we're going to win by the end of the season by finishing whatever six seventh in the constructors, right? I mean, obviously, you would take that.

Yeah. It's a funny sport that way. It's crazy. It was cool to see Esteban O'Kun and Fernando Alonza go wheel to wheel like they used to do at Alpine, and then take a cool selfie afterwards. They didn't want to kill each other, which I'm sure- Yeah, man, they liked that.

They were happy with that racing. They had a good time doing that. They really did.

It was great to see the Alpine look raceable.

Yeah, 100 %. That was big. That's big. I talked to Asivan about that after. I was like, What did I say to him? I was like, Hey Asivan, this looked like it was actually a really good result for the team this weekend. You guys brought upgrades back in China. This is your second weekend with the full upgrade. I said, If you were to go back to Berraine and where it all started and you were to come to here in Miami and see where it's gotten to, I'm like, Would you be happy with this turnaround that the team has He's like, Look, look. He's like, Those are really kind words you're saying. He's like, I really appreciate the nice words. He's like, But we got a lot of work to do here.

I like that, though. I like that.

It was a good answer.

It was a good That's a great answer. Did you hear the reporter talk to George Russell? Actually, I meant to bring this up in our Lando part of the show, but they said, George, you're no longer the last British driver to win a race. How do you feel about that? And he said, That's a very negative way to say that Lando won. Again, another guy who's very, very happy for him. What did you think of Mercedes this weekend? Because they seem to be in a place where you just are not used to seeing that Mercedes logo, which is mid-pack.

But Lewis was having fun out there, he said. He was saying that he was having fun with the race. He even told me that he enjoyed the heck out of the race on Sunday. He enjoyed the hard racing. It just a It seems so lost, Adam, with getting this upgrade that they got. Yes. Just trying to get the whole thing to work has been such an issue for them and trying to find the right ride height for this thing. I did a really cool sit down interview with Andrew Shovelin on Saturday, which we're going to debut on TSN. It's a really technical piece, but we were talking about the floor and the floor of the car and how important that is. I learned a lot from just sitting there chatting with them for 15 minutes or whatever. But it just sounds like Adam that they are caught off by different tracks that they visit and determining what is the proper ride height for the car and the floor itself. It's like they get caught off by the heat and the humidity that was here in Miami or cooler temperatures, and then how is that affecting the tires?

And so they're still in this huge learning phase with this new car that they've developed. And it just seems like they're going to be in this situation for the rest of the season. I mean, I don't see it getting any better, and hence, Lewis Hamilton leaving, right?

Yeah. Well, and it makes your Carlos to Mercedes. I don't want to call it a prediction, but your thought Carlos to Mercedes, you wonder, okay, if you wants to win, there is a Red Bull seat. Mercedes looks further away. But again, 2026 is going to be real quick.

Are they as far... Again, Adam, if we look at it, are they as far as Sauber? Are they as far as what Audi is going to be? Who is to say that Audi is going to come in and kick everyone's ass? I don't think that's happening. No, you're right. But I think Mercedes has already gone through a full regulation, full unit change, and they'd come out the other side as the fastest team.

They could do it again.

Yeah, easily. They could do it again.

Now, you saw Adrian Newey down at the track. You saw him walking around. Just walking around He was on the pit wall. I saw him all week. Everything like... Christian Horner had a really nice Instagram post about him, that thing. What did you think? What were the vibes?

I saw the two of them leaving. I saw the two of them coming to the track. I literally passed both of them. They both walked past me as they were leaving the track one Saturday night, and I was looking like, Wait a second. I thought you two weren't too tight anymore, but you're leaving the track together. Interesting. I think watching Adrian walk up and down the grid on both Saturday and Sunday was really fascinating because essentially Adam, I followed him.

That's a good reporter, Tim. That's what you're supposed to do.

Because I really wanted to ask, get him, get some questions because he didn't have any PR around him. But then again, I didn't want Red Bull to get upset with me. So I kept my distance. I let him do his thing, took some pictures of him, and I managed to get a picture of Michael coming up and poking him and then him turning in shock. And then all three of them, Mario and Dretti was there, too, having a laugh. And I managed get a picture of it. I was wondering what he was saying.

People were speculating about that, too, by the way..

I was wondering what he was saying. He used to do in the car. I was wondering what he was saying to him. I was like, Hey, you want to We have a new challenge for you, Adrian. Would you like to come in and help us with it? I was wondering what he was talking to him about. But yeah, no, that was really fascinating watching him. He has this red book that he takes We were with him, and literally whenever he sees something on a car, he opens the book and he starts writing down ideas and thoughts of everyone's car. I followed him from... I want to say I followed him from... Where did I follow him from? I picked him up at Carlos science car, P3, and I followed him all the way back to George Russell, and he was further back. I think he was a P11 or something like that. I watched him go through all the different cars. He stopped at McLaren for a while and took a good look at that thing, but he was really interested in the Mercedes. He was really, really like- Really? Yeah, he was really looking at what they were doing.

He was making notes and stuff, and I found that so fascinating. Oh, yeah. I just want to take a look at that book and like, what is he writing?

Yeah, well, I think he even... Or his wife posted about it. Amanda knew he posted about it. She's like, The Notebooks getting a lot of play this weekend. It was him with The Notebooks right next to him. I thought that It was funny. Oh, yeah, it was great. Really good troll job. Love that. Dude, his story-I love that they have a sense of humor about it.

I know. His story is going to be fascinating to watch and follow me because essentially at the moment, he's saying, Yeah, it's time for a break. Going to take a break or whatever. I'm thinking, Yeah, that break is going to be two weeks. And then you're signing somewhere else. That's your break, right? Yeah, exactly. Honestly, Adam, I think he ends up a Ferrari. I really do.

Yeah. Well, it seems to be Ferrari will be like what the Miami Heat were in 2011, just a super team. But then the performance metrics will have to kick in. So it's cool to think about, but then you got to perform. So we'll see what happens there.

Yeah, good point.

Hey, so, Tim, there was a rumor today or a theory that along the lines of if Carlos Sines were to go to Red Bull, Kimi Antenelli is somebody that Mercedes desperately want to keep in the system, and they probably want him to see He's in a little bit more in F2, assuming he doesn't win it this year. Because if he wins it, he can't race an F2 anymore. There was a thought that a guy who might be out of the job that they are familiar with is Valtry Botas, because it's not looking like Sauber is going to bring back either driver. Although Botas is a good qualifier, and he's a good solid driver and good guy. Would that make sense? I know that that's not likely, but would it make sense?

Yeah, it would. I would have him back. If I were Mercedes, I would definitely have him back. I mean, he left on good terms. Honestly, he did everything that was asked of him when he was teammates with Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes with their run there. I could see him being a good support for George Russell as well. He would not be a bad person to have on your team. Technically speaking, he's very sound. He knows how to help a team develop a car. So that would make sense to me. And you're correct saying the Sauber is most likely not going to keep either Joe or Valtry. Again, we don't know who's going to fill into that second seat beside Hopenberg at Sauber for next year. But I think Valtry is still such a seasoned veteran with so much experience that I just couldn't see him not on the grid next year. I think he has to be.

It would make sense, Yeah, 100 %.

It would. It definitely would. If I'm total, I definitely am keeping his agent close by on speed dial and being like, Hey, you want to come here for a few seasons? But then again, we have to see what happens with Carlos because I'm just going to keep saying it, man. I just think that's a good fit.

Yeah, it is. Well, here's the thing with Valtry is if it's not there, Then the only other team that seems to make real sense to me would be the team he's on, right?

Or Haas, right? Magnuson's up. So there's that as well. There are options for Valtry to move around.

If Williams decides not to keep Logan Sargent, I don't know where they're at on that. I think it's too early in the season to even know.

Way too early.

If they were to decide to move on from him, would they go a veteran route or do you think they'd go another rookie? Because it seems like-Yeah, I could.

Again, I know James wants to develop the drivers that they have in their driver development program because they've spent so much money on them. But at the same time, I don't think he's got someone who's ready yet to just come to the fore. I think that that relies on a more seasoned veteran. You're either keeping Logan around or you're going for someone who has a little more experience. That also would be a seat that makes sense to me at the same time. But someone did ask a question for the pod, and I guess we could probably answer it on here to us. Let's do it. Let's do some debrief questions.

Look at us, 45 minutes into the show already.

Dude, it doesn't even feel like it, man. There was so much stuff from this race, man.

Isn't it wild?

I can't believe it. It was a great race, obviously. Let me see here. See if I can find it. In the debrief, we have a question that regards... Where the heck is it? Oh, I think it's from Tamara Sutherland. Is that the one? No, that's not it. Sorry, everybody. I'm just trying to find Essentially, the question is asking, is the rumor around Antonelli replacing Logan Sargent in Imala true? That's from Hassan Salim. Sorry if you pronounced your name wrong. The rumor is false. I think I'm not too sure where it originated from. I don't want to say where I think it was from, but Logan won't be replaced in Eimele. James is still evaluating driver talent. He's still evaluating on what they want to do for 2025 and 2026 because I think he wants to lock somebody up for a little more of a long term deal. I don't think he wants to be shuffling drivers around again. They're still evaluating Logan, and he told me that in the media pen on Friday. So yeah, Logan's not going anywhere. That's that one. But we have plenty here, though, Adam. We have-What else we have? Let's go through them.

I mean, holy cow. Dan Klubine asks, Max was a gracious and funny in defeat this Will his attitude towards Lando's win change some people's perspective of him? That's a great question. We literally were just talking about that, Adam, and I actually think it will. What do you think?

Yeah, I agree. Max is very Dutch. I say that because my wife, who is also very Dutch, comes from a family who's very Dutch, and Dutch people tend to be extremely direct. And in our way of talking in North America, traditionally, we tend to maneuver around a topic. Or whereas Dutch people, they go right at it, traditionally. And they're known for that, and it's a cultural thing. And they're like, Why don't you just out in the open, please? And Max is like that. So it can come across sometimes to us as caustic or jarring, and it's not. But it has, I think, hurt his warmth within certain people's groups because, well, A, he's winning all the time, and you're going to get the haters out big time when you're winning all the time. Secondly, obviously, that's just who he is, right? But you're seeing him being happy for Lando, I think, shows deep, deep empathy because these guys are extremely competitive. And I think Max has been accused in the past of being cold and unfeeling.

And that's such a huge part, too. Within the Media, within entertainment, within social media, having that empathy factor from an athlete is huge. It takes their status of who they are. It really elevates it, doesn't it? And that's one of the things I've actually seen and learned the most, I think, from doing this job over the past almost 10 years at this point. But Fiona asks, What was your favorite part of the weekend besides the race? Well, the race was a great part of my weekend, Fiona. I actually I thought that was actually one of the highlights. But I don't know. I would say the crew we had from TSN down there, we had a ton of fun. Even though we were drinking from a fire hose all weekend, let me tell you.

Yeah, of course.

We were nonstop from 8:00 in the morning till 7:00, 8:00 at night, sometimes working flat out. But we had a good group with us. We had a lot of fun, a lot of laughs. We saw a lot of stuff, met some celebrities, got the interview. I'm like, I got to tell you this, though. I didn't... Do it. Let's go. I want to hear it. Okay, so we're on the grid, Saturday Sprint, and I'm like, Oh, my God, there's Jimmy Butler. And I'm like a big Jimmy Butler fan. So I ran over to him, and our cable is plugged into our camera. We didn't have a wireless microphone. So it makes it a little bit, just a tiny bit challenging when you're trying to race around. But the funny part was that I'm done interviewing Jimmy Butler, who was great, by the way. I'm so excited that I'm about to take off again, and our camera guy is yelling at me. I stop and I feel the cord raise up, and I look behind and it's our camera operator, Wayne. He's lifting the cord so Jimmy Butler can walk underneath it and doesn't get tied up in it.

And the thing is, is Wayne, our camera operator, he is 6'7, and Jimmy Butler looks at him. He's like, Wow, man. He's like, You're tall. He's like, That's awesome.

That's awesome.

It's sick and funny. It's fantastic. And then I think the other one- By the way, you always want a tall cameraman.

You always want a tall cameraman. You want to shoot down. You want to be shot down.

Yes, for sure. The other part, I think, was Sunday, I was doing a bit of a grid walk, and we ran into Lindsay Vaughn. It was such a weird space that her and I were in. I've got a picture of it. We were literally sardined in. We were encapsulated with people, and you couldn't move. It was 50 degrees with the track temperature, the cars, the sun. I'm just sweating buckets. I look at her and I'm like, Hey, Lindsay, I'm trying to wipe sweat away. I'm like, I'm really sorry. I'm like, Can I have two questions? She's like, Absolutely. I'm like, Okay. I'm like, Hey, you're joined by Lindsay Vaughn. I'm like, Hey, Lindsay, thanks for taking the time for us. Really appreciate it. We're jammed in like sardines here. She's like, She started killing herself loud. She's like, Sardines. So I can't remember what the line is. We were talking about Max, and she dropped this line where she's like, What do they say about me? All I do is win, win, win. She started singing the song and stuff. I'm like, Oh, right on. This is awesome. But I'm sweating all over her, and I'm apologizing for sweating.

As soon as I turn the mic off, I'm like, I'm really sorry. I'm sweating all over you. She was totally cool.

You might be one of the most polite. Yeah, you might be one of the more polite reporters. Remember, she's met reporters from all over the world, and they're not all nice, man.

Yeah, that's true. Who else do we meet? We met Jerry Bruckheimer. Got to interview him. He was cool. So he said that he told me the F1 movie should be out, I believe he said summer 2025. They still have a lot of shooting left to do. Who else did I get to? Darius Butler. That was cool. Who else? Oh, my God. I tried to get Odell Beckham Jr, but I don't think he really wanted to be interviewed. But I was playing a bit aggressive. I was chasing him around with the camera and the microphone. I'm like, Come on, you want to do this? No, I didn't get no. I tried, dude. I tried. I tried my hardest. You can't get them all? No, not at all. But essentially, Fiona, it was a great weekend. We had a lot of fun, and it's a great race. If you've never been, I suggest check it out because there's so much stuff that happens at the Miami Grand Prix. Just make sure you're prepared for the searing heat. That's all I would suggest. Parth Lad asks, Is Kameg driving like a guy who knows he won't be back next year?

Well, we did touch on this a bit, but I agree with what Adam had said earlier. I really do think that he is a driver that is driving for that seat. He is playing that team game as much as he can, because at the end of the day, I think there are some other drivers who are out there that could possibly end up taking a seat. Got one more from Kono Imo. Interesting. Do you think this result is an anomaly or a sign that other teams are catching up to Red Bull? Adam, when you look at this thing from afar, what do you see?

Well, I'm seeing times diminish. And again, I think we have to put this in context. When I used to go to races before the Drive to Survive years, where it was 300 bucks for an entire weekend pass, what a deal. Crazy in retrospect.

Not anymore.

And I I say this all the time. I watched Nico Rossberg and Lewis Hamilton lap the field a couple of times, up by two laps on everybody.

On some drivers, yeah. They were lapping up to P10, P8 sometimes. They were... Yeah.

And so for the field to be spread by 50 or 60 seconds, for the top five to be 20 seconds apart, 30 seconds apart is It's a miracle. So as far as I'm concerned, it looks to me like they are. And I've said it since last season. If you ignore the fact, and I know this is a big thing to ignore, that you're watching Greatness with Max Verstop and that car and everything else, the racing behind him is some of the most competitive I've ever seen as a motor racing fan. Somebody who has no expertise in it, has only ever had a pedestrian driver's license. For me, as a viewer, I'm really enjoying it, and I think they are catching up. What do you say?

Yeah, I think so, too. There are teams that are catching up. I think one of the most impressive things, Adam, I think, is just how competitive Ferrari still is with the lack of upgrades that they have brought. They haven't really brought anything to this car. Think about that for a second, and then think about the amount of upgrades that teams that are further behind, like Aston Martin has brought in big upgrades, McLaren now with big upgrades. You have other teams that have brought in big floor components, like Alpine brought big upgrades. Mercedes brought big upgrades. I would still say I am just really impressed with where Ferrari is punching without having really upgraded that car at all, which makes me wonder, once they start actually bringing big things to this car, where is it going to go? That's why I think, man, I think we could be in for some stuff later on this season for sure. I can't wait. Do you want to run through Grid Rival real quick? Because-oh, God.

I felt-Dude, check this out.

Hold on. Look at this. Look what I forgot to do.

Oh, no. You missed a week. Such an idiot.

I didn't do great.

I did not do great. I had a good lineup, I thought. I had Lando Norris, I had Charles Leclerc, I had Oscar Piastri, and I had Magnuson and Who did I have? I had Magnuson instead of Halkenberg. I had Ricardo last week and not this week because that would have been big points for the sprint race. Then I had Williams. It's just not a great week for my salary cap. I fall in. Remember, a couple of weeks ago, I was in 16th place. I'm now in 85th.

At least you're not 312th, dude. Wow.

The expert. The expert's at 312. That's fun. I I like that. This is a great storyline, Tim.

It's a horrible storyline. Who are the top five? Sunhar. I believe Sunhar is still in the lead. Hominator.

Sunhar is still in the lead, although he did go down slightly. Hominator and Noah Blake, 58. The new top three. We got a pretty tight field there.

I'm excited to see where this finishes with this group because that top 5, that top 10. How far back does this go? Even top 20 still in contention to win this thing. That's crazy.

Absolutely. Hey, listen, I'm still in contention to win this thing in '85. I'm coming back. Adam's rallying. Yeah, you're damn right.

You're damn right. Big comeback coming up here.

I'm coming back up through the field like Piastri right at the end there. I might even finish in 12th.

Man, I felt bad for Piastri. He was having a great weekend. 50% of the upgrades, so Lando obviously getting a full upgraded pack package and Oscar only getting just a small, small... I think they even took more off of his car after Norris had his incidents in the sprint race. And so for Oscar to really punch above his weight, In the race on Sunday, getting up as far as P2, man, he was looking strong. So yeah, it felt bad for Oscar at some points, but good hard racing between him and Carlos Sainz. I like that a lot. I like that racing. It was good, I like the racing between those two.

It's solid. I love that stuff. That's what you want. You want tough racing. It was fair and no controversy, just good old fashioned race. And Tim, I'm glad to have you somewhat home. I know you're with family right now, but I'm glad you had a good time, man. It seemed like a fantastic time. And we're going to have a lot more content, obviously, later this week. But it's been an exciting time, and there will be other races. What's the next race you're at, anyway?

Canada. Canadian Grand Prix will be the next race.

We're already talking about Canadian Grand Prix.

I know. It's great, man. I think we're almost there, dude. Literally, we're a month away.

Yeah, I can't wait. Let's go.

Let's go, buddy. I'm so glad for the Canadian Grand Prix.

We're going to let him get back to his family. We'll have another Nailing the Apex later this week. Thank you so much for tuning in.

No, I'm glad you're having me. I appreciate it. This is cool. No, I had a lot of fun in Miami. Thanks for everybody who wrote. That is Thunder and Lightning for those. If you didn't hear that, just thunder and lightning here now. That actually scared me for a second. I was like, Oh, my God, what was that? I jumped out of my seat. Yeah, no, Adam. Miami was awesome. I had a ton of fun. Thanks to everybody who asked questions today and who kept asking questions all weekend because it was great. I really enjoyed myself. But thanks for taking the time to do this, buddy. I really appreciate it.