All right, we got episode 420. We got Christina Bob here. Let me just I want to give you a proper background of what she's done. She has a book called Stealing Your Vote, the Insight Story of the 2020 Election and What It Means for 2024. I'm going to be asking her a very open-ended question. If you were to try to steal the election today and you were being advised on doing so. How would you go about doing it this year for 2024 that's different than 2020 that's different than 2016? I just would want to know a little bit more since that's what she studies. Now, again, background, attorney, journalist, author, holds a JD degree from California Western School of Law and a Master's of Law and National Security Law from Georgetown University Law Center. Prior to her media career, she was served as a Judge advocate in the US Marine Corps and worked in various capacities with the Department of Homeland Security and also worked with Trump on the 2020 presidential election being stolen. Also recently, I think 11 days ago, you were showing your running back moves. If you want to show this, Rob, I want to say it's 10, 11 days ago.

Just play the clip that you have, whatever one the clip was. And here she is. Is this the one, Rob, or is that a different one?

This is a different version, but it's the same clip.

Let's take a look. Let's take a look. You're I'm in a public place, assaulting my client.

Get out of my face.

Talking about assault. Just a lot of stuff going on here with Arizona. Anyways, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm thrilled to be here.

Yes. And I forgot to say, also Senior Council for Election Integrity for the RNC. So that's also the other thing that you do as well. So lots going on right now. We've seen the stories. I mean, there's not enough content to talk for hours, but I want to keep it focused with 2024. How concerned are you that there may be any election fraud for 2024? And if there was, what would be ways they would go about it this year, knowing the amount of heat they got for 2020?

Yeah, well, I I think they're trying a few different things this year that they didn't necessarily try or focus on in 2020. I think illegal aliens is a huge one, and they've opened the border. We've got information that leads me to believe that they are trying to register a lot of these people coming across the border to vote in all 50 states, doing it across the board and making the registration process a little opaque, not very easy to figure out who's legally allowed to vote. I think the illegal alien push is what I would say is the biggest difference between 2020. I don't think they're shying away from 2020 with the mail-in ballots and don't go to the polls, mail everything in. They're trying to play the same game that they played in 2020, but it's not going to be as effective, and it's not going to have near the impact. So they're trying to supplement it. And quite honestly, I think the fact that they're trying Donald Trump and doing all of the crazy lawful that they're doing actually is quite encouraging to me. It leads me to believe that they know So they don't have it locked in the way that they did in 2020.

And so they're trying to do other things this time around. Okay.

So if I ask somebody who is not a Trump voter, a Democrat, or even somebody that's an independent or libertarian voter that is not yet... Their vote is undecided. Obviously, the libertarian just announced their candidate. Nothing too exciting that he's not going to win. It's just somebody that they nominate RFK in the middle, somebody that they're looking at, that somebody for me to consider over Trump. But those who say, well, look, you keep talking about there was election fraud. They did this, they did that, they stole the election, all these things that they did. But every time you go to court, there's nothing to prove it. That's what many of the people on the left and many independents and libertarians would say to that. What do you say to them?

I say that's a great talking point that the left has. It's not entirely true. There have been several court cases, Wisconsin, Michigan, that have said that the manner in which the election was conducted wasn't in in accordance with the law, for example, drop boxes in Wisconsin were ruled illegal, and now they're fighting that fight again. In Michigan, the mail and ballot issue was ruled illegal after the fact. Certainly, they weren't cases that were necessarily challenging the outcome of the election. They were challenging the procedure of the election, which I would say does impact the outcome of the election. So the premise of the lawsuits and everything that people like to raise, I'd say that's not quite accurate, but I get it. We lost on that issue, so let's move forward. At least we have to. Time keeps going forward. But I think that there is a lot of evidence that's coming out. And quite honestly, there's cases now. There's cases in Georgia that raise questions. Anyone who I think is giving a fair investigation into what actually happened, I think at the very least, you come out with questions and you say, well, that's weird.

I don't think the original narrative that this is the most secure election in US history and there's no evidence of fraud, that we know is not accurate. So if that's not accurate, then what is? And I think that's the open question, right?

So as a voter for me, here's some of my concerns, because any time you saw what Vivek did when he got up and says, Hey, Ronan McDaniel, I'll give you my time right now. Come and apologize to Republican Voters, we keep losing, losing. We become the party of losers, right? We keep losing, right? And as somebody, Rob, if you can go back to the story that you just had up, exactly the story that you had up. History of voters, how many people can vote, out of what state, driver's license that's being needed. Rob, you were just on it. Zoom in real quick. Here's how this works as of today. As of April 2024, 35 states require voters to present ID in order to vote at the polls on election day. Of these states, 24 required voters to present identification containing a photograph, which means the other 26 don't require a photo ID for me to go out there and vote, which is ridiculous to me if you think about it, right? And They haven't accepted other forms of identification. The remaining 16 states did not require voters to present ID in order to vote at the polls on election day.

So one may say, okay, specifically to the Trump community, let's just say MAGA, you guys say there is, and there was voter fraud and all this stuff that took place. To the community that wants to feel like their vote counts and there won't be any more manipulation, what has the RNC or or whatever that whole community done to make sure there's more election integrity today than there was four years ago. Yeah.

Well, there's been a lot of progress, both, I think, institutionally as well as with the grassroots, what people are doing. I think the key is people getting involved. I think Conservatives, probably more than Democrats, have focused on running their business, raising a family, going to church. They mind their own business, and they want the government to stay out of their lives, and they've largely ignored the government. And now we're at a place where you can't ignore the government anymore. You have to do something about it. So I think the biggest difference is people are aware, people are speaking about it, people are getting involved. And if you look at, say, Virginia in 2021, the gubernatorial elections of 2021, which is one year after 2020, you had Virginia and New Jersey. In Virginia, you had an army of people show up to work the polls and to volunteer and to watch the process. And that occurred because that was at the same time as the FBI letter came out saying that they were targeting parents. They labeled parents as domestic terrorists at the Loudoun County School Board meetings, and you had the transgender issues. Well, parents in Virginia were really upset, and it was months before the election, so they showed up in mass.

And then in New Jersey, same year, you didn't have that same controversy in New Jersey, so you didn't have that same wave of people showing up to get involved and be part of the process. And on election night, the Republican candidate was up in New Jersey, and, Oh, we have to stop counting. It took them 10 In two more days. They delayed the vote. It flipped the outcome. And then the Democrat incumbent won re-election in New Jersey 10 days later. So what was the difference between Virginia and New Jersey? One year after 2020, the difference was the amount of people that showed up to be involved.

The amount of people that showed up to be involved. Okay, so what are you suggesting?

I'd say people get involved. If you're concerned about your local election or you're concerned that your state is somehow compromised, contact your county, become a city worker, become a volunteer to observe the polls. It's not enough to just vote and be part of the process because that's how... And quite honestly, I don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat. If you're an honest American who wants the process to work properly, get involved in the process.

What's a typical process there for a citizen to say, Hey, I'm going to volunteer on election day. I'd like it to be safe. What's that process look like and what would those duties look like?

Sure. There's a number of different ways to do it. I mean, if you want to be a poll worker, a poll worker, you'd have to apply through your county. That's someone who actually works at the county. But if you want to be like an observer, a volunteer that shows, get shifted, you can register through your state party. The RNC has a website called protectthevote. Com. You can go there and they'll walk you through the training process you take. And I think a lot of the training now is via Zoom. And I think there's a couple in-person trainings, but it's very easy, a couple hours of your time to get through the training. And then you get shifted and you go and you observe and challenge and you be part of the process. If you're limited mobility-wise, there's a lot of grassroots efforts scrub voter roles, do all kinds of outreach. Just find something you're interested in and get involved in it because everyone needs to be involved now. Yeah.

What role does the RNC play? So there's the state, there's local, There's federal, then there's the RNC. What role does the RNC play to help? Future elections are going to be credible where you know you're going to have the integrity that others are not going to try to manipulate. At least it's going to happen no matter what. China is going to be involved, Iran is going to be involved, Russia is going to be involved with them using their technology. They want to be able to do something with that. But within America, what role does specifically the RNC play?

Well, the RNC is the party, obviously. So the RNC is limited by campaign finance laws and various election laws and campaigning laws. But the role is we have a couple of different avenues to this. Right now, we have, I think, I want to say 87 open litigation cases where we're challenging either laws or procedures, voter roll, access, all that stuff. I think it's all 50 states at the moment, but I'd have to double check my list. Just making sure that the law is being followed, that the process is being followed appropriately. Then the other side of that is operationally. In order to become a poll observer or challenger, you have to get credentialed to be there, and you get credentialed either through the party or through a campaign if you want to work for a candidate somewhere. So the party would help credential people to to actually get involved.

I guess one part to the most basic level of a questioning, right? Okay, Alvin Braggs or LaTisha James, or, Hey, I'm going to run, and we're going to get him, right? Okay, great. Guess But to the left, to people that are voting for that and wanting that, they're like, Okay, great. You got him. You got him to have to pay $450 million. E. Jean Carroll, Mar-Lago is not worth Half a billion dollars. It's only an $18 million property. And then CNN says it's really $240. And we're getting given 34 counts of felony. Look at the jury coming out and the judge on July 11 is going to really be talking about what they're going to be doing four days before RNC. The Democrats are delivering on their promises. And then on the right, hey, I'm just so glad that a man like Donald Trump isn't at the White House because you'd be in jail. But that didn't happen. So why is it that the left, when they put the threat that they're going to do something, impeach, do all that other stuff, they're coming through. But the right, is the right more talking tough, but they don't do?

But the left, if they talk tough... Remember that one time, Chuck Schumer, right? When he's being interviewed by Rachel Madau, and he says, I don't know what he's doing. This is not a good strategy because the DOJ or whatever he uses, the intelligence-Oh, yeah, intelligence community. This is it right here. Watch this. This was history It's a little while ago tonight. Rob, can you raise a volume?

There are quotes there. The intelligence briefing on so-called Russian hacking was delayed until Friday. Perhaps more time needed to build a case. Very strange. We're actually told intelligence sources tell NBC News since this tweet has been posted, that actually this intelligence briefing for the President-Elect was always planned for Friday. It hasn't been delayed. But he's taking these shots, this antagonism, this taunting to the intelligence community. Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.

So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he's being really dumb to do this.

What do you think the intelligence community would do if they were moving?

I don't know, but from what I am told, they are very upset with how he has treated them and talked about them. Again, the question being, one end, they threaten, they come through. The other end, you threaten, but you don't do anything, you're forgiving, and you move on. Yeah.

No, that's the problem. I think that's why the MAGA movement has surfaced, has become what it is, because for so long, the Republican Party, and I don't mean the actual party, I mean the Republican side of the aisle, has been exactly that. They've been cowardly. They have been carrying the bags of their Democrat counterparts. And I think that's why the MAGA movement, that's why Donald Trump is popular, because he's not doing that. And finally, you have Conservatives that now have to get involved government who didn't want to because the government is falling apart. They look at Donald Trump and say, thank you. Someone is actually speaking my language. He cares about the things I care about, and I believe he's actually going to do what he says he's going to do. And so that's how Donald Trump got popular.

Let me ask this. Should a President Trump, when he says, because you'd be in jail, should he follow up on his promises and go after Hillary Clinton and go after what they're doing and go after Fauci, or should he come out and say, look, I know they came after me. Don't worry about it. Let me just go my business and do what I do and not have to come and hold these people accountable. What should the voter expect from the person they're voting for to come and hold these people accountable?

Yeah. No, I don't anticipate. I can't speak for him, but I do not anticipate Donald Trump turning the other cheek this time around. His first term in office, they had the Russia hoax, and they went after him and did the fake impeachments and all that stuff. And he played by tradition, right? Our nation's tradition is we don't target our political opponents. It's not the way that we operate. And then what they do, they turned around and did it. And so I can't speak for what he's going to do or how he's going to do it, but I fully expect the swamp to be drained and all of the corruption to be ridered.

I hope so, because there's guys that are wanting to make sure that that is going to be happening. It's not just a campaign talk, and then you're in there and that is not taking place. But while these guys say they're to go after them, they actually do. So it's like a fighter that says, you say something, I'm going to slap you upside the face, and he does. And another person is like, no, he doesn't do anything. The voters are voting because, hey, if this really happened, they said Russia collusion, what happened? Hold on, we count them. If Fauci today... Can you play the clip of what just happened with Fauci today? Fauci is being grilled today by MTG. But here's the part with Fauci. Just play this clip, him getting emotional. He can play the clip here.

Go ahead. Fauci, can you please share with us the nature of the threats you have received since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic?

Yes. There have been everything from harassments by emails, text, letters of myself, my wife, my three daughters. There have been credible death threats leading to the arrests of two individuals. And credible death threats means someone who clearly was on their way to kill me. And it's required my having protective services, essentially all the time. It is very troublesome to me.Wait for?It is much more troublesome because they've involved my wife and my three daughters.

At this moment, how do you feel?Deeper.

Mike Arn.Terrible..

Do you continue to receive threats today?

Yes, I do. Every time someone gets up and says, I'm responsible for the death of people throughout the world, the death threats go up.

You can pause it right there. He's expecting America to sympathize with him while all these time, Hey, Thanksgiving, don't be around your elderly family because you could give them COVID. And that may have been the last time somebody could have seen their grandma or their grandparents. And we're supposed to sit here and be okay with that. But there's a community... I have people that are fully against Trump. Those are easy to talk because you already know what their position is. It's very honest. No way in the world they're ever going to vote for him. Then there's a side that no matter what happens, 100 % they're voting for him. But I have a lot of people in the community that are in the middle, independent libertarian. They're asking, I want to hold this guy accountable. They believe RFK will hold them accountable because RFK is maniacal about holding this guy accountable of what he did if he gets elected. And they think Trump's going to forgive him and on and go to the other issues, right? My ask for you is to those people that are sitting there saying, What's going to happen to these guys?

They really, forgive my... They shit on America the last four years. I mean, it's been like a mess the last four years. This is the greatest country in the world. What the hell is going on here? They want to make sure there's going to be a level of accountability for some of these guys that want us to sympathize. Yet all the millions of people that passed away, all the people that we didn't see, we're supposed to just move on and say, oh, we're so sorry for Anthony Fauci. Sorry you're going through this.

Yeah, I don't think there's going to be much, oh, let's just forget about it and move forward. I think after what they've put Donald Trump through and put his family through and put those of us around him through and what they've been doing to us, not only is it Donald Trump. I mean, Donald Trump is obviously the big one that's in the news all the time that everybody wants to talk about. But they have galvanized everyone around him and everybody that's involved in that circle to say this is ridiculous. It has to stop. It absolutely has to on every single level, on every single issue. The corruption needs to be rooted out. So I agree. I think it's all related from COVID-19 through the 2020 election. I think COVID was largely part of what caused the 2020 election, so many problems. And then we're seeing the problems of 2024. So it's all related. I don't see that much of a distinction. It's just different avenues of the same problem.

Yeah. Again, we just had a debate with Dave Smith against not Anthony Fauci. He would never show up against Chris Cuomo. And it went bonkers, viral, all of a three-hour debate. Eighty % of it was around COVID, and it was unbelievable. People are still frustrated. Okay, let's go to what's going on today. So 34 convictions, convicted felon, that whole thing that they're talking about. Here's what CNN posts. What rights does Trump lose as a felon? Your question's answered. You can go to the next slide. And obviously, I'm sure you know, CNN is a very credible source. So let's go to Can Trump still vote? Most likely, Trump is a Florida resident. In Florida, the first to New York law on the question of felony voting. New York allows felons to vote as long as they are not incarcerated. Okay, that's still determined to see what they're going to be doing. Next, can he travel abroad? The conviction does not automatically prevent him from holding a US passport, but it could make it difficult to travel to some countries. A number of them don't allow felons to enter their borders. Okay, next one. Rob, if you can go next one.

Can Trump possess a firearms? Federal law bars those convicted of a felony from possessing a firearms in most states have analogous prohibitions. A case challenging the federal prohibition has been appealed to the US Supreme Court, but justices have not yet said whether they'll hear it. Could How do we get a security clearance? It would be difficult for anyone with a felony conviction to get security clearance, but presidents do not need security clearance. Next one. Okay, so you hear these types of things that are being said. His sentencing is set for July 11th. One, How much does things change now to what do you think is going to be happening on July 11th? Because that's four days before the RNC. Are they trying to put him behind bars so he can't be at the RNC? How much uglier you think it's going to get?

I don't know. I don't know what they're trying to do. I think it was crazy and wrong for them to even do this in the first place. So trying to divine up what they're going to do, I mean, your guess is as good as mine. I do think they want take him off the campaign trail, whether it's actually throwing him in jail or confining him in some other way, other way or just keeping him in court, whatever it is. They want to tie him up because they don't want those massive rallies. They don't want the nation to see how popular he is. However, every time they do that, he gets more popular. And so they have to play their cards very carefully as well, because they're very close to getting him all 50 states in the election with the banana type policies that they're implementing. I don't know what they're going to do, but I'm real curious to see how they play it. What could they do?

If you're playing only the paranoid survivor, let's look at the options. What are some things that could happen on the 11th?

I hope this doesn't happen, and I don't think it's what they should do or will do. But in theory, they could sentence them to jail time and remand them to the prison. They could do that, or they could sentence them to some type of jail sentence and then stay I think if they were going to try to do that, that's probably the more politically correct way of dealing with this. Stay until after the election or some later date, basically hanging it over his head where if you don't win the election, you have to go to jail, something like that. Or they could try to come up with some type of house arrest. They can be real creative with it.

Well, as an attorney, you're familiar with these things. I mean, you take a look at SBF and you take a look at Elizabeth Holmes. Those were multi-count fraud issues. But even after they were sentenced, they were both given six or eight or nine months. And in the case of Elizabeth Holmes, I believe it was extended on the report date. You are being sentenced to this. But since they were white collar criminals, they yanked the passports. They don't think that they're an international flight risk. And so they say you have to report in six months. So I think it would be how... I think the wet dream of the mainstream media is that they Oh, they're going to sentence him to jail and you're going to see him put in handcuffs and walked out of the courtroom. That's not the way this works. This is a first-time offender, white collar thing. So if they even mention jail time, it falls against precedent for these things in New York. If they sentence him to jail time, there's usually a reporting window. Yeah. That even 90 days would take him through the election.

Yeah, no, you're exactly right. In normal life, it would just be another hearing And they would go on, come up with whatever ruling they come up with, and they'd move on and continue the case down the road. With the convention being four days later, is it possible they might not follow normal procedure? It's possible. I don't think they should. Like I said, Donald Trump is only getting more and more popular with all the craziness they throw at him. So I have no idea what they're going to do.

So you don't have like a... So let's look at...

Vegas odds. At Are you going at the Bob handicap?

If Bob has to handicap it, what do you think we see? You're an attorney.

I am an attorney. I think they will probably not take him into custody right away. I think that's a very small possibility. I think they'll either kick it down the road and say, Report later, or stay it for something. They'll come up with some way to delay it, but hang it over his head to try to use it as leverage for Do they sentence time?

First time white collar offender on a Class I felony in New York? Nobody does time for these.

No, I know. Well, and I don't remember which case was, but they hadn't even brought the charges, but we don't truly even know what the underlying crime is. What was he convicted of? So all of that makes this very confusing. But I don't think... I mean, normally I would say, no, absolutely not. But the only thing that gives me pause. Why I'm not answering right away is just because the convention is four days later. This is a political election year. So all of those weird things come into play, and I don't know how... I don't know.

If they try to keep them out of the Convention, what do you think happens?

I think it's the biggest convention the RNC has ever seen. I think the entire nation shows up.

I'm on that page. I'm on that page. I think it's going to be... What's the number Eric said yesterday? Is $70 million of small donations, $21, $31, whatever. But then over $200 million if you include the big donations that they've raised, which is absolute insanity on the type of money that's coming in. And that's as of yesterday. So God knows where it's at today, let alone if they go out there and do what they're doing. And now Elon Musk is about to do a Twitter Spaces with Trump, and they're now unifying together. And then Jamie Dimon and Elon Musk are now rumored to have fixed their feud of 10, 15 years, and now they're getting good together. Why is Jamie getting involved? Because when Jamie was at World Economic Forum with Klaus Schwab, he started saying, Why are you guys bashing Trump? What are you talking about? His economy policies were actually pretty good. There's a very weird amount of people that are coming together.

You make a really good point. Joe Biden promised to unify the nation, and he is.

I didn't mean this way.

I get him. So That's one promise I think we can say he's fulfilled.

He's a unifier.

He's a unifier.

You got to say he's a unifier in a very creative way, but he's definitely a unifier. I agree with you.

The streets around that building in Milwaukee will be so full of people. It will make the National Mall when we have these large gatherings look like a Little League gathering in your local park. I believe that Earth will descend on no off. I think so.

I Obviously, while we're going through this right now, but going to asking a question about with RFK, for yourself, what's your concern with the people in the middle when they're looking at RFK? Do you think RFK hurts more a Biden or you think he hurts more a Trump vote?

Oh, no, I think he hurts Biden. Why is that? Because I think a good chunk of the people that would vote for RFK are people who would have voted for Biden but can't anymore. They just don't support what Joe Biden is doing, so they're looking for an alternative. Rfk is not conservative. I mean, a lot of MAGA people agree with him on the COVID policies and the vaccines and stuff. But apart from that, I mean, he's pro-green New deal. He's pro a lot of policies that the MAGA movement does not support. So I just don't... Well, and I guess if you're talking about folks in the middle, that's why I say it's more likely to be Democrats, because his platform is a traditionally Democrat platform, with the exception probably of vaccines. But everything else, he's going to pull from the Democrats.

Are you on the same page, Tom?

I'm mostly on the same page. Patrick interviewed him on a live podcast we had here. He and his team graciously came here, brave to get in front of any microphone. I think that's the right thing to do in an election year. And Pat interviewed him. There's a couple of answers he refused to talk about, which I think really put off the conservative vote. You know what I'm talking about?

One of the ones was about puberty blockers, but he changes position. I mean, even on the bottom of it now says, Hey, he's changes because when I said, What do you think about puberty blockers? What do you think about transitioning? He says, Well, I haven't done enough research. I don't have an opinion on them. You can't say something like that. But then the answer said he changes position four months later. It's all over Twitter. So position has been changed. We're going to see what's going to happen with them. But I'm Curious to know if he is going to take from the left or the right he's going to take from Biden or if he's going to take from Trump. We'll see what role is going to play. Ideally, I'd like to see him working closely with Trump, because if Trump wins and he assigns RFK to say, your job is to go investigate Fauci, that is the guy Fauci does not want to go investigate him. So can you imagine that relationship there with Trump and Fauci and says, you go after Fauci?

I think that's a brilliant play. And not to say something inappropriate here, but I will. And that is, make RFK Jr, the modern day Chairman of the Warren Commission for the- For the COVID fiasco? For the COVID fiasco would be very strong. I think Trump is reaching across. I was very impressed with his performance at the libertarian convention. Not everybody agreed, but he stood there, stood his ground and says, look, let's partner together. I'm not here against you. I'm together. And so to your previous question, I think the impact of RFK is 80% pull Biden and 80 % pull Trump. I don't think it's zero, but I really only have it, PBD, at about 80/20.

We'll see. We'll see what's going to happen there with the two. I think he's got a voice and he's got a loyal audience.

Yeah, no, he does.

Would you love to see RFK Jr. On Capitol Hill sitting there as the chairman of the commission asking questions.

Listen, their camp made a video this week, and I described RFK as a lawyer you don't we're going to go up against because I've worked with so many. We've spent, I don't know how much money on lawyers. Just the last five years, we probably spend four or five million on lawyers because selling the company, doing this, you're always hiring lawyers.

Fortunately, they were transaction.

Yeah, it was different kinds of lawyers. But even most lawyers are just wanting to quit to settle. Let's just go settle, right? Then you got those that want to fight. Then you got those that are just like pride, and they're going to get through the end. Then you got those that are true believers, annoying that once in a lifetime type of a lawyer. This is a guy that's not going to slow He's the annoying lawyer you don't want to face. That's how I describe him. But let's go through it. So Arizona, what happened with Arizona? I think you were on the list of what? You went 17. Is it 16 others? It was a total of 17 of you. It's a total of 18. Total of 18 of you guys. And as to your mug shot, which you have there. You seem very happy in that picture. What happened there? Tell us about it.

Well, the charges, it's really funny. The charges are... It's a conspiracy to commit forgery case. Which is really interesting to me. But so what they're claiming is the Arizona electors, there are 11 electors, when they met... So the Electoral Count Act requires the electors to meet on December 14th. There's specific deadlines that they have to hit in order for their electors to be counted on January sixth at the Capitol. And Arizona was being contested. There were, I think, a couple of court cases still ongoing at that time, and certainly the Arizona audit continued all the way through the end of September. So there was an open contest. And so in order to comply with the Electoral Count Act, the electors met to process their certification. In the event the challenge was successful, they had an approved slate in compliance with the Electoral Count Act to be used. And the Arizona attorney general is saying that that document that they created is a forgery.

The document that they created is a forgery?

Yeah.

The document that they created is a forgery?

It is as crazy. And that's it? It is as crazy. Yeah. I mean, one count of conspiracy, one count of like, scheming or whatever Arizona calls it. And then I think it's seven counts of forgery.

What does that prevent you from being able to do? What do you mean? As a lawyer, what does it prevent you?

Well, nothing. I haven't been convicted. I don't think I'm going to be convicted. So at the moment, nothing. It's just- It's just media, being able to write about it, talk about it.

She's It's amazing that the system has created the way that it is that these types of things can continue to happen.

Oh, it's awful. And I don't live in Arizona. I mean, when all this was going on, I was in Washington, DC, and then I was in Florida during the grand jury. So the idea that we're now subject, you've got a DA in Georgia that can prosecute people from wherever the Arizona attorney general. To your point, I think because Conservatives weren't standing firm saying, no, we're not going to let this craziness go further, you now have leftist attorneys that are extending their jurisdiction to wherever the heck they want.

Yeah, I think if they continue this way, if I'm on the left and I'm watching how It is constantly going the way where it's like, Let's just move on. I'll let's just move on. I'll let's just move on, let's just move on, the left is going to continue to bully the right.

Well, that's what they're going to do. And they're going to throw all of us, those of us that are willing to speak, they're going to throw us all in jail or they're going to figure out a way. What they are What they're trying to do is they are criminalizing political opposition. If you try to challenge me, if you try to go against what I say is the truth or what I say reality is, I'm going to throw you in jail. That's what they're doing. I mean, Donald Trump is obviously the big one. He says it all the time. They're not after me. They're after you. I'm just in the way. Those of us that have been around him in the process are also taking some bullets, but they are criminalizing political opposition. They've done it in Michigan as well, but that one hasn't made as many waves because they didn't indict Rudy Giuliani or Donald Trump.

Where did our founding fathers get it wrong with the Constitution to allow for things like this? Or even the way that's been set up, that's allowing for this type of bullying to be taking place? What part of it allows them to do that?

I think the Constitution is solid. I think the founding fathers didn't anticipate a day where we would be such a cowardly impotent nation. I mean, the whole point, they fought, right? They would fight with each other. And I don't Do you think they ever anticipated one side slinking away. And I write about this in my book, but it's a pull. Both sides has to pull their weight in order to keep it tight and balanced. And when you have the Republicans let go of their end of the rope. That's how you get this runaway leftist policy.

Who's responsible for that? Who are some faces that did that? Who on the right?

On the right? I mean, I think it's a collective... I mean, I go into specifics and specific instances in the book. But I think it was a period of several decades where you had conservative voters not necessarily engaged because we were all living our lives doing other things. And then you had a series of what we would now call rhinos, the rhinos, who said it's easier for me to go along, to get along, to not fight, to not include my constituents or include my constituents in my considerations for the actual policies I'm taking place. So I would say rhinos. And that's why this MAGA movement really is a purging of the rhinos. What the Republican Party had become was a party of people who didn't fight back. They cooperated on everything that the left wanted to do, but they just called themselves Republicans so they could actually get voted into office.

Yeah, it's obviously frustrating and annoying when you're going through this, but at the same time, a price is being paid right now. Rob, can you pull up what other cases are left with Trump? Because It's not done yet, right? They still got a few other things that they're dealing with. Financial Times comes out, says, Donald Trump's legal troubles are not done. These are the next trials to watch. The next one is the federal election interference. They're waiting for Supreme Court to talk about what their decision is going to be. Special counsel Jack Smith alleges a former president conspiring, obstructing an official proceeding. Then you have the classified documents that we're dealing with, waiting for trial date. Smith has also alleged Trump hit troves of government documents from authorities. This is the Instagram post I sent you, Rob. Just go to your text. I sent you there. That's the one right there. Then if you go to the next one is a Georgia election, another trial delayed, the most complex case involves 18 others and their efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. And these are three things. Now, do you think these three are going to be hitting us the next four and a half months or are some of these going to bleed into 2025?

I think the only one that... I think all of them should go into 2025 if you follow normal litigation procedures for this, criminal procedures. I think just from reading the leftist media, you can tell that they're like, When's the Supreme Court decision going to come out? Because they want that out, and then they want to try to set a trial date. So they're hoping that they can jam the January sixth case before the election. I don't think they should be able to, but we've seen a lot of weird procedural maneuvers come down on these cases. So they all should be pushed into 2015. Georgia, I don't think stands a chance. Florida, I don't think stands a chance. But I think they're all hoping and praying that they can jam the Washington DC case in before the election. I will say, though, the media is propping up. I mean, they're propping these cases up a lot. And when you have CNN and these others saying, well, what's next for Donald Trump? Can he vote? If that's what you're talking about rather than the fact that we just convicted a A former president of a crime that no one's really sure what the crime was that he supposedly committed and was covering up, that's not the story, right?

The story is that, can he vote? The story is what's happening in our nation. So I think the media is doing their job as far as the left is concerned, right? They're muddying the waters and they're making it confusing for the American people.

Yeah. They had a roll call of states going. They had Colorado, then they had Maine. And I remember watching MSNBC, which I only watch for research purposes by accident. And them talking about, and where does it go from here? Where does the domino effect go? What other states go? And I'm sitting there looking at this going, first of all, that's a 5, 4 state decision that was so weak in Colorado that if that last justice with the Colorado Supremes hadn't swayed on that horse hair of a judgment. And he even said he almost went the other way. If that guy had just gone the other way and said, there's really nothing here, it would have been the Colorado Supremes of 5-4. He's on the ballot. Go away. Take this weak ass case off my docket. Instead, he goes, and now it's 5-4. No one looked at how weak that case was. I had that thing overturned at 5-4 in the Supreme's, as soon as I saw it. And guess what? We got it. It went unanimous. It went actually with the last two just consenting. It was 7:0, and the last two consented. But you look at that and the media The media doesn't understand this because they, in their mind, have politicized the judicial system.

What do you think needs to change? Because under the Constitution, we all get due process, but now process can take forever. Where does that need to change?

Well, I think holding people accountable is the first order of this.

Which people?

Across the board, whether it's rogue prosecutors that have abused their authority, whether it's state legislators or judges that have failed able to hold them accountable. We have checks and balances in this country, but we're still out of balance that they're not being checked. And so I think we need to put people in all areas of government. We need to have people in the legislature that are willing to take a look at some of these judges and say, do we need to impeach some judges or what's the process for this? And I'm not saying every judge or any judge in particular needs to be impeached. I'm saying we need to use the process because we just haven't been using what's already in place to make it come It's like reckless prosecution.

And you end up with something like we have, which is commonly known, I didn't invent this phrase, but the ninth circus, which is then, and I know you're laughing because you know who I'm speaking about. And they're called that because they have the honor of being the most overturned circuit appellate court in the United States. And no one's looking at that and saying, why don't we get in there and fix these guys? Yeah.

No, I think we We need to take a closer look at all of it. And certainly it's not Donald Trump coming in and making changes, right? Because that does take on dictator type status. We can't do that. We all have to be involved in this process. It has to be a legislative function. It's got to be a judicial function. It's got to be a function of the voters. Everybody needs to get involved in the process and play their part. And that's what I was referring to when we were talking about actual elections is a democracy, constitutional problem. But in democracy, it works best the more people are involved. Because the more people are involved, it decentralizes everything and spreads it all out. So whatever role you feel called to play, play it. Get involved, because we keep this nation afloat, and we save this nation by having as many people involved in the process as possible, whether you're challenging a judge thing or there have been recall efforts on certain politicians. Thank God. If you don't like your local official, recall them. Use the process that's in place. The problem isn't necessarily that the process is broken.

The problem is we haven't been using it.

Yeah, Rob, if you can pull up the tweet I just sent you, because there's a couple of things here, right? One, Dean Phillips from New York came out and said, Hey, Governor Hochul, you should pardon President Trump since you're the governor of York, and some are saying, Joe Biden may come out and pardon President Trump. Then Trump just came out and said this, I think this is yesterday, if I'm not mistaken, The sentencing for not having done anything wrong will be conveniently for the fascist Four days before the RNC, a radical left, Soros, back DA, who ran on a platform of I will get Trump reporting on a acting local judge appointed by the Democrats who is highly conflicted, will make a decision which will determine the future of our nations. The United States Supreme Court must decide, right? So you got three things going on here. Some people on the left are saying, Joe Biden should come out and pardon Trump. That may actually be a good look for Biden if he did that, because it's showing, Hey, I don't think this is fair. America is bigger than this. And even though he's my opponent, we don't agree on a lot of things.

I'm willing to come out and do this because I think we need to compete fairly. That can actually show strength if he does that. Chance of him doing that less than 10%, right? Hokel coming out. I mean, Phillips coming out and saying, Hey, you should pardon him, right? Dean Phillips, I think he wanted to be a president. Or he's a candidate or he's not. I don't know if he's still a candidate or not. And then Trump asking Supreme Court, what do you think will happen and what do you think is the right move here?

What will happen? I don't think Joe Biden is going to pardon him. I don't think Governor Huckle will pardon him. I think, honestly, I think they have a plan. They, being the radical left, have a plan in place to try to steamroll their way through these elections, through 2024. And I think that they're going to stick with the plan that they have, which is prosecute him as much as possible. As far as anyone stopping them or limiting that in some way, the courts of appeals and ultimately the Supreme Court, how quickly the trial team gets through that process or straight to the Supreme Court, depending on what they do. The left has put us in a position where you have Conservatives that need to be very strong and very to be confident in their decisions and not bowing to the press and not bowing to the political pressure. I think that's a hard decision for a lot of Conservatives to make at this moment. I don't know what they're going to do.

Here's a question. The reason why I'm asking this is, remember how Colorado, Hey, we're not going to put them on the ballot. Trump's not going to be on the ballot. And this other state's following in, and that other state's following in, and then Supreme Court said, Relax, not happening. Trump's going to be on the ballot. Okay, everybody like, You can't do this. How different is this for Supreme Court to come in and say, What are you guys doing? This is ridiculous. None of these 34 counts is going to count. None of this, Supreme Court, Leave it alone. You guys cannot do this. How different is this case versus the Colorado case?

In Colorado, the Supreme Court had allowed the states to say who can be on the ballot and who cannot be on the ballot. You would have had a split of 24 states that come out and say, Joe Biden's an insurrectionist. And they all would have done it, and the election would not function. So the Supreme Court really had to say, no, you can't do this, to make sure that the states don't all fall apart and we descend into just the divided states of America. You don't really have that in this New York case because it's a criminal case on whether he committed 34 felonies or not. It doesn't set necessarily a precedent. The precedent setting is that you can prosecute a former president, but it's not setting a precedent of what other states can do.

Does that make sense? So what Trump is asking for here, Rob, if you can go back to that tweet, what Trump is asking for here at the end when he says, The United States Supreme Court must decide, meaning, how are you preventing me from campaigning four days before? Can the Supreme Court get a hold of the judge in New York and say, What the hell are you doing? Or no?

No, I don't think they would do that.

How do you interpret what the President is saying here. Maybe it's my English as a fifth language that's messing me up.

I interpret that as his trial team has a strategy to appeal to the Supreme Court, and I think he likes their strategy. It sounds like it's a good... He's pleased with it, and they plan on doing... That's the way I read that. I don't know. I'm not read in on it. But when I read that, I think, okay, they have a plan on appealing.

How do you read it, Tom?

I read it that his team is probably at this moment Preparing, what is it called, an amicus brief that they present to the solicitor general to get the court to consider it? Or am I getting this wrong? But I would say I would believe that they are preparing their brief for the solicitor general. Now, what order must that happen? There's an order to things. And won't the court say, this is the job of the circuit Court of Appeals now, or this is actually if it's a New York state, this is the job of New York Supreme Court, wouldn't it be first?

Sure. If they're going through the regular appeals process, however, and I don't know what his trial team is doing or planning, but there are other causes of action that they could try to appeal directly to the Supreme Court. It sounds like that they might try to take... It wouldn't be the appeals process of this case. It would be a separate cause of action directly to the Supreme Court.

Yeah. You know, a couple of things happened these last few years where you realized the most powerful person in the world isn't the President. The most powerful community are those nine Supreme Court justices, right? They have the power. That's why when he flipped three seats in one term was like, you got to be kidding me. If Hillary would have won and she would have flipped it, can you imagine what America would have looked like today?

Well, I think that's what they were planning on doing. I know.

What I'm saying is, though, the fact that I think We learned the power of Supreme Court. I'm wondering if the Supreme Court can come in and impose themselves here and say, you're getting involved in the election. Step this one out. You're making us look like idiots. Our founding fathers would be embarrassed with the behavior we have in America. I don't know.

Well, I think that's true. Don't forget their term ends at the end of June. So we'll find out in a couple of weeks how this all going to play out. Whose term ends? The Supreme Court.

Okay. Supreme Court session, they hear-I'm sorry, their Yeah, the solicitor receives everything around Valentine's Day, and then we hear all these answers throughout the springtime, and then they go on summer vacation, and they do not confide, nor do they hear. And they are a petitioned. I think it's on the building of the Supreme Court out in front, it says, The only petition beyond this court is to God or something like that. It says top of the building. So, Pat, the Supreme Court would not go out and do anything, but they would have to be petitioned very rapidly to intervene here.

So, in other words, likelihood of anything happening to both of you is slim to none.

Something happening from the Supreme Court? It's not slim to none. They would have to do it real fast.

They did it pretty quickly with Colorado, though, right? It felt like it was like, okay, old story. Everybody moved on. Nobody was talking about it anymore. That's still likely that they could do that. Yeah, for sure. Do they have the authority to do that, to call on New York and to make that a Well, I don't think they'd be calling on New York.

There would be a separate appeal, and I don't know what cause of action or under what legal theory they're considering, but it wouldn't be to the New York court. It would just be separate to the Supreme Court, and they would answer it.

Okay, so let me ask the last question, and then we can wrap up. How do we really fix this, election interference? You know like when Elon bought Twitter and then became X. If you remember at first, Barry Weiss and Matt Taibi Twitter files. You see the emails from the Biden administration, you got to take this down. You can't let the story be. And then we realized, guess what? The Biden administration asked to not allow that New York Post to stay with Hunter Biden's laptop and the 50 secret intelligence, higher up sign. There's nothing in that laptop that you have to be worried about. Okay, let's vote. This is just BS. It's not a real thing. And then we find cocaine in the White House, which doesn't really happen all the time. We don't know who this came from, but Hunter is there, No, it's not really him. Somebody else probably dropped it off. This was a mistake. It's definitely not got to do anything with the family. Anyways, so then comes to today. The left, the right, the right's like, There was election interference. There's no way in the world all of a sudden, the hockey stick, middle of the night, we go to sleep and boom, you see it's going like this and then boom, goes up and that's how they went.

Prove it. You guys haven't been able to prove it. Prove yourself. What is the ultimate a way for them to know that there was this? Is it the highest level of somebody on the inside, whether they worked at the feds, FBI, whatever, to be a whistleblower coming out and saying, Listen, I'm a very high-ranking person working at the FBI. Here's my position. This is what I've done. This is very hard for me to do this. I'm going to lose my career. I'm going to lose my credibility. I'm going to have nothing else to do. But here's what there was. There was election interference. Here's what the FBI was involved in. Here's what the President was involved in. Is that the only thing that's going to take the American people to say, holy shit, it was this nasty? Because it looks like everything is protected that nothing's being leaked. And what I mean by nothing's being leaked is the Twitter files where somebody had to buy Twitter to see what we sell. We're never going to have the Google files unless if they sell. We're never going to have the Facebook files unless if somebody buys Facebook.

And we're never going to have the FBI files unless if somebody goes in there and sees it or somebody that's a higher rank and to leak it to give us the FBI files. Kind of like what happened with Julian Assange and Snowman and all this stuff. You shouldn't be doing this. This is not appropriate. Do you think that's what it's got to take for people to realize how dirty it was?

Well, I think there needs to be an investigation, and the investigation is not going to happen before the election. And I think that's part of why the Biden administration and left is fighting so hard to keep Donald Trump out of office, because as soon as he gets in office, there will be an investigation. And we will get to the bottom of all of the corruption, whether it's COVID, whether it's the election, whether it's the Russia hoax and the the intelligence community and all of that, it will all come to light. I think they're fighting to prevent those investigations from happening in the way they prevent them is by not letting Donald Trump back in office. So basically, what I'm saying is I think we have to play the hand that we've been dealt this election, and we can still win it. Absolutely. I mean, I spent a lot of time on the ground in all these states, and it's still winnable despite the craziness that's going on, but we have to do it. And then I think we investigate on the other side of the election.

So So then that's the part.

I mean, if someone came forward and did that, that'd be great. I just I don't see that happen. I mean, maybe I don't want to.

That's a November surprise or an October surprise. It's like an ultimate November or an October surprise. And I wouldn't be, by the way, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, because if someone's on the inside and they're working for the FBI, and a lot of times most people think FBI agents are all on the left and they hate America. There's a lot of people that are FBI agents that are on the right or center who love America, who cannot stand what's going on right now.

Some of them have come out. I think they've had to leave the agency.

We had one of them on here, and we had a chance to interview him. But it's got to be a very high rank person that was directly involved that just fed up to come out and say, it's done. Like the other day, this book just came out called The Anxious Generation. I don't know if you've heard it or not. Anxious Generation is talking about the kids and all this other stuff. And the guy, Jonathan Hyatt. I don't know what his name is, Rob. Am I saying it correctly? Can you zoom in a little? Yeah, Jonathan Hyatt. Okay. And he says how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. This just came out as number three on all of Amazon this week. Okay. So this came out two months ago, and it's still up there. And in it, the author is being interviewed by this other man. And he says, so let me ask you, based on your statistics, who raises kids better, healthier kids that are less anxious, less anxiety? He says, conservative parents are much better at raising healthier kids than liberal parents. Liberal parents' kids have higher level of anxiety than conservative parents.

Then the author asks, then the interviewer says, So if you know that, why wouldn't you go to the conservative creative size that raises better kids because you're on the left. He says, Oh, just because something proves it doesn't mean I'm going to go to the other side. I'm part of the academia community, and most of us are on the left. But you know what, though? Here's the part. Even though you and I are sitting there saying, Even though your argument proves the other on the other side. That gives the argument more credibility that the author doesn't want to go to the other side. I think the right whistleblower needs to be somebody from the left. I think if the whistleblower comes out and says- It has to be. Yeah, it has to be, because if it's from the right, here we go again, and they'll demonize them and all this other stuff.

I don't think anybody on the right can be a whistleblower.

No, not at this point. But go ahead, Tom.

I was inspired over the week when you may have saw a Sequoia Venture Capital partner gave $300,000 to the Trump campaign and wrote a very long... You just pointed, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. And wrote a very long tweet about why he was doing it. And that was a person from the left who could not stomach what has happened.

Do you have it? Do you have the tweet? I don't.

Sean Maguire?

Sean Maguire? Yeah.

It was a long tweet saying, This, this, this, and this, this is why I can't stand for this. I can't sit here while this happens. I just, right there by the airplane, I just donated 300K to Trump. Right there, Sean Maguire.

I just don't think the timing isn't a coincidence.

Then you go down below it, and right there, that's the one that opens up, and he tells you exactly why he did it.

Can I read the first few sentences? Let me just read them again. Back in 2016, I had drunk the media coolade and was scared out of my mind about Trump as such. I donated to Hillary Clinton's campaign and voted for. By 2020, I was disillusioned and didn't vote. I don't like either option. Now in 2024, I believe this is the most important election of my lifetime, and I'm supporting Trump. I know that I'll lose friends for this. Some will refuse to do business with me. The media will probably demonize me as they have so many others before me. But despite this, I still believe it's a right thing to do. I refuse to live in a society where people are afraid to speak. The 2016 election, I'm going to start off with something provocative, but I think it leads to a different type of most controversial Trump issue, which is obviously January sixth. So here it goes. I believe the 2016 election was manipulated to hurt Hillary Clinton and to help Donald Trump. Interesting. Hillary Clinton herself believes this. She denied the 26th election, resolved dozens of times, and still does believe that it's plot, plot twist.

I agree with her. Looking to the 2.0 hacker group that strategically looked their emails to WikiLeaks. Okay, she's right. And by the way, when Cuomo came out, not Komi, Komi came out and said that a week before the election. What are you doing? Before the proceedings, watch this 30 second of the video. It's 24 minutes out of Democrats denying election results, Russia in a frame in 2016. But for me, as someone that used to work in national security, Russia's implicit support for Trump made me deathly afraid. So This guy's actually going from that position to flipping and voting Trump?

By the way, this goes on another five pages where he said, And for that reason, I'm giving 300,000 to Trump because I think this is too important.

Wow. See, this is what's going on that's weird right now to me.

Find a person like this in Google to come out with the docs. That's what you're asking for. I'm praying for the same thing.

Are you kidding me? I got a Menectia the other day from a high, high, high, high, up, what do you call it, a Google executive, talking about how sick of it he is. This is a guy that's made a lot of money, done very well for himself, absolutely sick of what's going on there. And there's a lot of that going on right now. Well, we will see what's going on. The only thing for me is in order for this election, and if parents to actually gain some credibility, it's either Trump needs to win and he needs to hire the right people to go in and investigate what the hell happened with the DOJ, FBI, Marlago rate, all of these things. And unless if that happens or a whistleblower comes out, they're going to have another four years to hide all of it and manipulate all of it, and the market will never find out.

Yeah, I would agree with your assessment.

I think so. So in other words, can we say this thing called the 2024 election is a big deal?

It's a very big deal. And please get involved. Please contact your county officials. Get involved in a grassroots effort. Join a campaign. Do something. Vote and do something else.

And go order the book, Stealing Your Vote. We're going to put the link below in the chat description. Rob, make sure it's there for people to go out there and vote. Order the book, Stealing Your Vote: The Insight Story of the 2020 Election and what it means for 2024. Christina, thanks for coming out. This was fantastic. Really enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for having me.

Appreciate your time.