If you don't learn to trust your own feelings, then you will never trust anyone.

Oprah, how have you defied the odds and embraced your worth?

It is the defining mother wound for me. And my mother didn't stand up for me. I realized at that age, this is going to be my life. I'm going to have to do this by myself. The world will drown out the voice of God. The world will drown out your intuition. God speaks first in the whisper. It first gives you just a little. Hmm. And if you can learn to trust yourself, it means you can handle anything.

I've had it show up in my life. Even in the same cologne. Same cologne. Still had to relearn the lesson.

Oh wow. That's wow. I'm excited for your book. Your new, beautiful book. Worthy. I believe that it's one of the most needed tools on the planet earth right now. Delight in it. You are lifted by it.

And people freaked out.

They freaked out.

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Jamie Kern Lima is her name.

Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima, in their life.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Jamie, you're so inspiring.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Welcome to part two of my conversation with Oprah on the Jamie Kern Lima show. So many people struggle with feeling not enough. Like, they feel like they've had too many setbacks or too many failures, or they don't have what it takes to defy the odds in their life, and they want to live their best life, but they so often end up doubting themselves out of their own destiny. For you, you were born in poverty in apartheid Mississippi to a teenage mom who had no education. You endured sexual and physical abuse, then in your career, endured naysayers like different people that just didn't think you had what it takes. You were demoted from the evening news, and yet you defied the odds. You right now, are referred to as the most influential and powerful woman in the world, as the greatest living teacher in the world, titan, icon, all of those things. Oprah, how have you defied the odds and embraced your worth?

Beautiful question. And as you were forming the question, I was thinking, wow. That is, I accept and receive this great space of accomplishment that I have achieved, but I did not do it alone. I know for sure that it is my spiritual grounding and my belief from the beginning that I was God's child. And my perception, conception, ideas about what God is have certainly expanded over the years as I became an adult and as I questioned what I was taught in terms of dogma and religion specifically, but my firm faith in the power that created the stars and allows us to revolve around the sun every day, recognizing that I come from that, the creator that made the planets and expanded the cosmos and created this universe beyond anything we can even imagine. Which is why I believe when you take your last breath, you're just gonna be in awe. You're gonna be so shocked. You're gonna be so surprised. It's gonna be death is gonna be quite the surprise. Well, knowing that I come from that, I have always known that I came from that, even though my idea of what that is has expanded over the years.

And because I truly am grounded in the source and have been since I was four years old, that I can have a cognitive memory of knowing that there's something bigger than me at work here. Watching my grandmother on the back porch, no running water, no electricity. And so we used to have to clean our clothes. My grandmother would wash them in this big iron pot, and there was this long pole she would use to pull up the sheets and the clothes. And one evening, I was watching from the screened in back porch of our, you know, shotgun house. And she said, oh, Gail, you better watch me now, because one day you gonna have to learn how to do this for yourself. And I remember the clothespins on her dress, and I remember the moisture from her breath. So it must have been cold in Mississippi. And I had the distinct feeling that, hmm, no, I'm not. I'm not. This is not going to be my life. I don't know what my life is going to be, but I know that I'm not going to be doing this. But I also had sense enough not to say it out loud.

And I felt that this presence of God that my grandmother had caused me to, had instructed me from a young age to always pray on my knees. And I still pray on my knees. I was just sharing with some friends the other day that I still get on my knees and pray. And I was so exhausted the other night, and I was like, oh, God, okay, thank you so much for this. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get out. It's almost like a superstition now. Like, God doesn't hear the prayer unless I actually get on your knees. Get on my knees. And so I know that that's really not true, but it's a thing my grandmother said to me, for as long as you are able to bow, you bow on your knees. And so that's just been a habit that I've cultivated over the years, no matter how many tequila shots, no matter how tired I get on my knees. And so it is a grounding in knowing. And I think what you are offering in your new, beautiful book, Worthy, is the opportunity for people to be grounded in their own knowing. I was grounded in the knowing that I came from something bigger than myself.

And I grew up reading about Harriet Tubman and sojourner truth and Fannie Lou Hamer. And so I am very, very conscious that my ancestry, even though at the time, I wasn't connected to know that I was born as the great grandchild of former slaves, I have always been connected to that which has come before me. And I feel a synergy and an energy with the past that continues to propel me into the future. And so my grounding comes from knowing that I'm never alone. And so I will have to say, I'm excited for your book. I believe that it's one of the most needed tools on the planet Earth right now, because one of the things that I've seen in all of my thousands of interviews is that the mean spiritedness the sadness, the jealousy, the hatred comes from a sense of not feeling worthy. And I am blessed to say that I have never felt that, because I've always felt that I was God's child and fully worthy. I've never had a moment of believing that anything I achieved, I did not deserve, because I know that it was always God's hand in it.

Again, I am in a awe of the space that God has created for me and the achievements that I've been able to make as a result of being connected to that source.

When you were four years old, you just shared hearing your grandma say that to you, and you had that knowing.

I had that knowing.

Was that from. Did you believe at the time, did you feel that was from God? Do you feel that now?

At the time, I couldn't call it God, because at the time, at four years old, my idea of God was. My idea of God at four years old was kind of like God and Santa Claus were the same, only God had more power. You know, God could do more things. God could punish you. Santa Claus couldn't. He just didn't bring you presents. But they were all really in the kind of same. God was up there. Santa Claus was up there, out there at the North Pole somewhere. And so it was a very limited idea, but I still believe that this God with the long white beard and Jesus, who looked like the calendar that we all had in our churches with the crown of thorns on his head. And I remember once I was someplace. And Gail and I were looking at a documentary that somebody had done, and it was about the sculpture. And she was saying, what is that? I said, no, I think it's Jesus. And she said, no, because Jesus doesn't look like that. His beard isn't like that. So, I mean, we're also indoctrinated by the images that we were given that God looks like this or Jesus.

Well, nobody has seen the face of God or knows what that is. But my concept was very narrow at that age. But I could feel distinctly that there was something going on. The second time I felt that was after I was moved from my grandmother. I lived with her for the first six years of my life. And then when I moved to Milwaukee. And suddenly, no explanation of why you are no longer with your grandmother, you're now moving to live with your mother, whom I did not know, had no memory of her. And I remember, you know, walking into the home where my mother was boarding with this woman who was. A woman, Misses Miller, who could pass for white. And I remember that's the first time I ever remember distinctly feeling like, this is about the color of my skin. And I never remember having a thought about race before that, but this is about the color of my skin. That misses Miller didn't want me to sleep in the house, and so I had to sleep out in the little foyer porch. And it was a defining moment for my mother. It is the defining mother wound for me, because it's the moment when Miss Miller said, well, we don't have no room in here for her.

And my mother didn't say, I'll make room in my bedroom. So I had a half sister who was light skinned and misses Miller adored her. And I thought, oh, it's because of the color of my skin that I'm not let in. And my mother didn't stand up for me. So the moment that I was forced to be out in the. In the. It was covered. So it wasn't like I was outside, but it wasn't in the house. It was, before you got in the house, a little porch foyer like. And it was. There were no curtains on the window, and it was just a street. And I had never been in a big city. I'd been living in the country on a dirt road with pine trees. And I was really, really frightened those first nights I could cry thinking about it. And I remember praying to God to protect me and to send me an angel to protect me. And I named the angel Melinda. And I would always, before I would, like, pull the covers over my head, over the little porch at night, pray for Melinda to come and watch over me and ask God to please let me, Linda, be there to watch me.

So I felt the presence of something greater than myself. I was searching for it in a physical form, and I realized at that age that I'm gonna. This is going to be my life. I'm gonna have to do this by myself, because I cannot count on my mother to stand up for me. And I think I felt that I couldn't consciously articulate it, but I certainly knew that that was a moment where she should have said, no, she comes into my room, I'm going to make room for her.

Yeah, I've never heard Melinda yeah. I've never heard Melinda in those moments at that young age. And then now in your life, do you feel like you hear your intuition? Do you feel like God talks you through your intuition? And do you feel like that's what was happening? A power greater than yourself comes through in your intuition.

I think God speaks through your intuition. If you're quiet enough to know your intuition from your head, from your thoughts, if you are discerning enough to separate the thoughts from the feeling of. Because when God speaks, it's actually calm, it's not rushed, it's not worried, it's not bothered. It is a distinct calmness that you feel. For me, I feel it more than I hear it. Sometimes when it's really bad, I hear it when it's like, don't do that. I can hear it. It will literally wake me up at night. And anytime I've ever gone against it, I've been in deep trouble.

So many people don't know how do you hear your intuition? Or they're in a situation like you were at age four, where they get a feeling, they get a knowing, but then they sort of like, doubt it or don't trust it.

I would say to everybody that the greatest gift you can give to yourself is start to leaning, is to start leaning into that feeling. And you can't even have the feeling unless you're quiet enough and removed enough from the rest of the world. The world will drown out the voice of goddess. The world will drown out your intuition. If you are. If you are going looking to particularly your friends, social media, any outside source to bring you the answers, you can't hear it. You can't hear it because God isn't speaking through them. God is trying to. The universal force of life is always speaking and breathing through you. And so you have to get still enough, removed enough disconnected enough from the world to actually know what you are feeling. And anytime you're going around asking everybody else, what should I do? What should I do? What should I do? What should I do? It means the real response is for you to get still and ask yourself that question, and just to stay still until the answer comes. And the answer may come in multiple ways. I mean, you may be looking at something on tv, or somebody says something, or you hear something or you pass something, the answer comes.

The answer always comes. There isn't a question to be asked that there isn't an answer for.

And you have to get still.

And sometimes the answer isn't. Sometimes this is what I say to my girls all the time. You've already projected what you want the answer to be. So when the answer comes, you can't hear it because you're waiting for the answer that you ask that you want. You have to stay open to what the answer is. You tell me what the answer is, and I will be willing to move where the answer leads me. And I would have to say, when I think about my trajectory and the path that I've taken, that the reason why I defied the odds, which was your original question, is that I have been obedient to the call and responsive to the answer. I am obedient to the call and responsive to the answer. And when you can put yourself in alignment with that, I don't care who you are, what your circumstances are. You will be led to the rock that is higher than thou. There's also one of my favorite of Bible verses. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I. And so it is really about doing the work on yourself. And the work is always the spiritual work.

It's always the spiritual work.

I want to recap this for people listening, because I love that famous saying, success leaves clues. Success leaves clues. And so many people, because I get this question all the time, like, I can't hear my intuition. How do I hear my intuition? Or how do you know God exists? Or all these different things? And I think what you said is so powerful, the a get still. And a lot of people say, I can't hear my intuition. And I think, well, it's not.

It's not Moses in the burning bush. Okay. Yeah, for most people, it's not Moses in the burning bush. Yes.

It's not over a loudspeaker.

It's not, go tell it on the mountain. Let my people go. It's not that. It's just a feeling. You know, you've heard me say this many times, and it's really, God speaks first in the whisper, and it's so subtle. It's like people who end up in relationships that are unhealthy for them. Most people in unhealthy relationships, and I know that there are kajillions of you listening to me right now, wherever you are in the space of that relationship not being good for you, if it's not been good, you. You have known for a long time it wasn't good because it's been whispering to you from the very beginning. You don't end up in a relationship, and all of a sudden, it goes bad. It. It starts to show itself to you early on with the smallest of things.

And right now, 80% of women don't believe they're enough. Like, it's such a thing and feel unworthy, and I want. Can you. You shared the whisper. This is a huge, huge, huge thing for so many people. Anyone I know who has heard this applies this to their life all the time. Will you share Oprah the whisper, the brick. The whole wall crashing down.

Yeah, the whole wall. So I say, God first speaks to you. And by God, I mean your intuition. By God, I mean the life force. I like using the life force. When I first met Sidney Poitier, he never would use the word God. And I'd say, why won't you just say God? He said, I think it has so many connotations for different people around the world that he always used to say, the forces. The forces are with me. So when the life forces, divine energy, God, whatever title you want to give, that which is greater than ourself, running, all of this stuff speaks, it first gives you just a little hmm. And a whisper is really. Mm hmm. So when I'm speaking about relationships in particular, it's you're with somebody and you think, hmm, that's odd, or hmm, that door wasn't open normally, but now it's open. So the first time I started thinking about this and articulating it in from the whisper, the brick. The brick wall, and then the tsunami is. Gavin de Becker actually wrote a book called the gift. And he tells the story in the beginning of the book about a girl comes home to her three story flat, and the door is open.

Normally not open. She says, hmm, that door's normally not open. Out from under the stairs comes a guy. Hmm. She's afraid. He says, don't be afraid. I can see you're afraid. Don't be afraid. Can I help you with your groceries? No, no, no, no. That's okay. I can do it. He goes, oh, no, no. I can see you need help. You need help. Let me help you. He goes, don't worry. I have sisters. I have sisters, and I would never do anything because, listen, if anybody did anything to my sister, I don't know what I'd do to them. And so she lets him help her upstairs with the groceries. He gets to the third floor, kicks when she puts the key in the door, kicks the door in, and rapes her, you know, abuses her and tries to kill her, and she manages to escape. And he has that story in the beginning of the book because he's saying the first no was the answer, the first no. And the reason she continued is because of this thing that women in particular have. They think they need to apologize and think that the person's gonna think that you're not a nice person.

But the first whisper actually was, hmm, that's odd. That door's open. Hmm, that's odd. There's a guy in here, and now he wants to help me up the stairs. And by the time you get up the stairs, you're in full blown brick wall tsunami mode. And so if you look at your life and all the things that have happened in your life that you didn't pay attention to, almost nobody gets it out of nowhere. Almost nobody. I don't know an instance where it comes out of nowhere. And so I, for many years, was a brick person. It wasn't until. So the whisperer is always offering you the message to bring a message to you. It's saying, listen. If you don't listen to the message that the whisperer is trying to give you, the next thing you get is a brick upside your head. And by the time you get the brick, you're in full blown problem mode. You now got a problem you've got to fix because you didn't listen to the message, and you don't fix the problem. You already see it's a problem. You see we're not talking anymore. You see that we're distanced in the relationship.

You see that things aren't going the way you're going to have a full blown disaster soon, and that is the way it works. That is the way it works. If you look back at your life, you can say, oh, God, I should have caught it in the whisper. I certainly should have caught it with that brick. Most people are brick people that once it becomes a problem, you're like, oh, okay, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? If you don't do something and you just let that ride, it turns into the tsunami.

I know. You say too. We'll keep relearning the lesson. It'll keep happening over and over again.

It shows up wearing a silver pair of pants the next time it was wearing a gold plaid thing before. Then it comes up wearing a silver plant, and you don't recognize it.

You don't recognize it.

Then sometimes it comes in a skirt, and it's got a little fufu on it. You don't recognize it because it's disguised itself, but it keeps coming and keeps showing up until you actually get it.

Until you learn the lesson. I've had it show up in my life. Even in the same cologne. Same cologne. Still had to relearn the lesson. Oh, wow. I think getting still, like you said and trying to hear or just be aware of what comes to you and something you shared, I think, is a huge aha. Moment where you said, if you're projecting what you want the answer to be, when you're trying to hear your own intuition, and you're trying to hear your knowing, but you're projecting what you want the answer to be. You might block seeing or hearing what the real answer is. You might block it coming to you.

I've kept a journal, as you know, since I was 15 years old. And in the early years of my journals, I was always saying, God used me. God used me. And when you are open to being used, rather than telling God how you choose to be used, when you are open to being used, the possibilities actually are limitless. And so I would just have to say the true secret to my success is that I live in God's dream for me. It is me sitting in the space that God has dreamed for me and me being obedient to the call and responsive to the answer. That's how I got there, because why.

Do you think he brought that into your life?

Well, what I do think, what I know for sure, is that the intention behind every show, my heart was so pure and so clean. I just wanted to do the work. And I was being led by my instinct and my intuition, which is the voice of God, is the life force working through you at the highest vibration. When you are paying attention to what that instinct and intuition is telling you, that is you operating on the highest level. And I was really attuned to that. So from the very beginning of the Oprah show, from the night that we went national, I sat down and wrote in my journal, use me, show me, guide me. Let me use this as a tool for something that's bigger than me, bigger than my own personality. Show me how. That was my intention. And I became even clearer and more focused on the intention as the show grew. And so it was always out of doing a sense of good in the world when I realized I wasn't doing good in the world. When I interviewed the skinheads and KKK, and you heard me tell the story of that moment, of the woman we were doing, a man who had cheated on his wife.

The producers were so proud of themselves as they had the wife and the girlfriend on at the same time. And they had agreed to come on national television live. And he humiliated his wife on television in front of all of us and said to his wife, she's pregnant. Well, what you don't know is she's pregnant. And the audience gasped. I gasped. I was so hurt. And to this day, it is one of the most shameful things I was ever a part of. And I said to my producers afterwards, this will never happen to me. Or this show again. We're not doing this. We're not. Nobody should ever be in a position to ever be humiliated in my name. And they were like, okay, so we won't do that. So what are we going to do? So we're going to sit down, and we're going to figure out, literally, how we can use this show as a form for good. They were like, well, we just can't sit around doing good, good things all the time. People don't want to just see goodness all the time. Oh, yeah, well, you can have conflict, and you can have drama, and you can have struggle.

You can have all those things. But the heart of what we're doing has to come from a space that you want to shine the light and not bring darkness into anybody's space or sphere. And that is why the show was so successful, because it was in 1989 that I sat down and had a whole big conference weekend with everybody saying, this is what we're gonna do now. Let's try to come up with ideas that are in alignment with intention. I started explaining to them what I thought intention was based on the book that I'd read by Gary Zhukov, seed of the soul. And people were confused about, what does it mean? So I gotta do a show, and I gotta have an intention behind it. And not just booking the guests, you know, that's where that. Well, what if it's just. It's Brad Pitt. Okay, and what is the intention behind Brad Pitt? Well, okay, we gotta sit there for an hour. Why am I doing it? And then I remember Terry Golder said, cause is Brad Pitt. Okay, that I accept. That. I accept. But I will say. I will say that that intention moment changed for me the course of my life.

Understanding intention, what Gary Zhukov meant in seat of the soul bite, it stopped me from being the great, greatest doormat, dishrag people pleaser.

When you have an intention for something, do you sort of filter it through your own intuition? Is this the right intention for this thing?

That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. To kind of know, and do you feel, you know, for everyone listening in every part of their life to have an intention to think, what is my intention for this? For applying for this job, or for maybe making a change in their life or for having a goal or a dream? Because a lot of people have a vision of what they want, but then they often don't know why they want it, and so they kind of just give up too easy because they don't have that intention to lean on or they go off course.

Well, I think you got to understand the why in order to be in full alignment. Because a lot of people are out here wishing for stuff.

Yeah.

And you're not going to get what you wish. You're going to get what you believe and what you intend. And so when there's a huge difference between being in vibrational alignment with that which you're trying to attract, you can't attract the thing. If you are in resistance to the thing, you can't attract the thing. If there's any belief whatsoever that you can't have it, you can't attract it. If deep down inside there's the fear that you won't get it. You have to be open in alignment, but it is happening, whether you can see that or not. And if you are vibrationally not aligned with the thing that you're asking for, it will not come.

Has that been a journey, like an evolution of you going from again, back to four years old, feeling that knowing of, no, grandma, I won't just kind of. That knowing to your journey through people pleasing you. Talk about not being able to say no until you were 40. And just where you are now with tuning into vibrational energy and space. And I've been with you in different places where sometimes I glance over and I can just feel like you're just taking in the energy and you're just not in a hurry, probably because the vibration feels right. And just how is that evolution? Because there's so many people going, how do I feel those things? How do I get to that place? You know, I want a higher. You know, I want a higher expression of myself in my life. And I'm trying to figure out how to get there, how to tune into it, how to feel it, and then how to listen to it, trust it, and live. The answer that I'm feeling, I think.

It'S about finding the space that brings you peace. Wherever that is. Orlando. Wherever that is. Or whatever that is.

Yeah.

What is the thing that calms you? What is the thing that makes you feel most yourself? Where is that space? And wherever that is, that is where you begin your alignment with the higher power. Because that is what the higher power feels like. It feels like the calmest, sweetest, most comforting space within you and around you. And so if you can't identify that, then you don't actually really know yourself. If you can't say, well, I know, you know, I feel. I really feel best in the bathroom with the toilet seat down. Or I feel better when I am walking in the woods or I feel best in my kitchen, or I feel really good in the shower. I feel wherever that space is for you, lean into that. Lean into that. And this is what I know. The forces are trying to speak to us, trying to guide us. Everybody has them. I have hoards of them. I have. Oh, my God, I have such a team on the other side. Everybody has it. And if you would only make yourself aware of it. It's like anytime somebody dies, I always say, when somebody has lived on earth and you knew them in the flesh, and they, particularly if it was a parent or somebody that you actually came from, their seed, their flesh, you now have an angel that you know and you can call by name, because where are all, where's.

Where's the energy of that person gone? And if that person loved you on earth, wherever the next realm is, that love never dies. And the spirit of that, particularly if you were, if it was a parent or somebody close to you, that spirit still is with you. That spirit still abides with you and that person. I will tell you that my relationship with my mother is deeper, stronger, grander, sweeter than it ever was on earth. Because the spirit of her isn't attached to all the ego and all of the competition and all of the things of the flesh. And so her love that can abide with me is just pure. And that is true for all of us. If you're open to attune to it. So.

And if this episode added value to you, my only ask is that you share it. Share it with in life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakeable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you@worthybook.com. or the link in the show notes below.

Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy. If you're an overthinker, you're constantly living in a state of what if, running through every possible scenario, worried about what someone else says or thinks, and struggling to really hear your inner voice and feel like you can trust yourself the first time. So many of us constantly repeat these patterns of overthinking and worry, staying stuck in cycles that really don't serve us. If this is you and you want a free, proven process to break the cycle so you can stop overthinking in its tracks and start learning to trust yourself to your core, I've created a guide for you that you can download in an instant for free. It's called how to stop overthinking and start learning to trust yourself in it. We go step by step on how to stop overthinking in its tracks so you can finally believe in yourself and know your worth as you make clear, confident decisions. If you're ready to stop overthinking and stop your spiraling thoughts in their tracks, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself@jamiecarnlima.com. slash resources or click the link in the show notes below.

And now more of this incredible conversation with Oprah.

You know, I say to people, when you lose someone, yes, mourn. Go through it. What's taught me that is every dog that I've lost, I've had 21 dogs, and every one of them has a little soul. And all of their souls abide with me in different ways. Some are stronger than others, and some are nothing. Some are funnier, some are. But the presence. I started to notice that with my animals who were leaving. And then I started to pay attention to people who I knew, who were close to me, who had passed. And so, and also my relationship with my father, very different, very much more comforting and nonjudgmental and proud in a way that he really, he now knows. He now actually knows. Because I think when both of my parents were here on earth, they were, they understood the illusion of what it meant to be Oprah Winfrey. But not until they passed on did they understand what this really meant.

Did you feel like your mother and your father really saw you and loved you?

No.

While they were alive?

No. No, no, no.

Never.

I think my father did listen. My father was such an honorable man. You know the story. Many of you out there don't know this story. My mother and father never married my father. They had sex one time on the way home from school. He later saw her and asked, you know, because she looked pregnant. Hey, Bernita, are you pregnant? She denied it. This was October, so I would have been conceived probably what, April, May. And she wrote him a letter saying, you have a child. She needs clothes, which is my mother's way. Send money after I was born. So he said. He got a letter in February saying, you have a girl, send money. So there was never that connection. And I was always as a child trying to figure out who I was supposed to love. So when I was my father, I wasn't supposed to love my mother. My mother was always saying, your father doesn't do anything to help. But my father came to get me when I was third grade. I think I was seven years old at the time and getting ready to go into the third grade. And I lived with him and my stepmother for third and fourth grade and then went back to Milwaukee because my mother insisted that I come back to live with her.

And that was a really tough life. And that's when the abuse, sexual abuse started. But the bottom line, to answer your question, my father accepted responsibility for me after my mother had said, no, she wasn't pregnant. The word is that she was trying to get someone else to marry her. The word is. For many years, I was told my father wasn't my father because my mother was also with somebody else prominent in town. But when I was told that it didn't matter one bit to me, I was an adult already doing the Oprah show. And somebody said, you know, that's not really your father. Your father is this guy. And I said, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me because Vernon Winfrey stepped up and said, I will take responsibility for this child because he had had sex with my mother one time. So he's that kind of man. And when they brought me to Nashville as a little girl, third and fourth grade, I'd skip the second grade. I could read like a champion. But I didn't know one thing about math. And my stepmother spent the entire summer of my 8th year grilling me with those multiplication table cards.

Because you're going into the third grade and you've got to know your multiplication table. So I so disliked her because my first introduction was, you got to go to the library. You got to check out five books. You gotta learn your multiplication tables in one summer. So I think I got up to nines by the third grade, everybody else was just starting anyway, so I had that kind of relationship. My mother had said, when you go into that house, you better not call her mother. So I'm in a house, and I don't even know what to say. For a year, I didn't call her anything because I didn't want to upset my mother. So living in that kind of trying to please my mother, who was in Milwaukee and wouldn't have known what I called her, but you better not call her mother. So I ended up calling her mama Zelma. And my mother didn't like that. So when I went back to live with her, I started calling. She greeted me in a peach robe. And for years I called her peach because of the peach robe, so as not to upset my mother.

But to answer your question, I thought my father saw me in terms of, I wouldn't have had the life that I have had my father not taken me from my mother. And I think that, no question about it, had I stayed in Milwaukee with my mother on the course that I was on being sexually abused and then sexually promiscuous, and then all that comes from that, I would have been dead. I would have had the dream that I could have been something more and would have been tormented because I was not. Because I would not have known how. Because life circumstances would have just spiraled me down and I would have tried to hold on to Goddesse, and I would have been a church going woman and I'd have been a praying woman. I'd have been all of that. But not understanding how choice after choice after bad choice after bad choice had caused me to spiral, because that is where I was headed at 14. I didn't have this realization until last year or two years ago when I was working on what happened to you with Bruce Perry, the book and writing about my grandmother and leaving my grandmother.

And all that time, all these years, for more than 60 years, I've carried the why did I have to leave my grandmother? What a terrible thing to separate me from my grandmother. I realized for the first time in writing that book that the reason that happened is to get me out of Mississippi, that it was God's intervention in my life to get me out of the apartheid state. Because it happened just before I was supposed to start school. And I was such an impressionable child. I would, like, imitate anybody that came into the house. I would really responded to authority from being whipped all the time, you know, told to behave a certain way. So if I had been raised in a segregated Mississippi, in a school where white teachers or black teachers were in any way telling me that I was less than, I would not have grown up feeling worthy, that would have wiped the worthiness that I now so hold as my position of power in life.

I would not have had it, you know, with. Will you share about this idea? Cause this is a hard thing for people to grasp when they've gone through tough times or setbacks or things that feel unfair or that are painful. But the idea that things are always happening for you, like, not to you.

But for you, well, this is what I know. Nothing is lost. There's not one thing that is happening that is lost. I say this blitz Bodzwoli, who has masterfully directed this reimagination of the Color purple, was telling the story of being a young boy in Ghana with no access to film school, no access to, you know, directors, no possible way of imagining that he could ever be sitting in Hollywood directing $100 million film, but that he had crayons and paper and used to draw and use his imagination to make stories. And when he presented to me, to Steven Spielberg and to Scott Sanders two years ago, as one of the directors for this film, having never done anything before like this, only his own $40,000 film. And I said to him just yesterday, I said, all those crayons and all that paper where you thought, I can't be like the other kids. I don't have the paint sets that they do. I don't have the drawing boards that they do. I don't have the access that they do. All that drawing with all those little crayons, none of it was lost. And so for everybody, for everything you've ever done, is preparing you for all that you're meant to do and meant to be.

Nothing's lost. Nothing's wasted. And I think about all the trials that I have been through. Every single thing that happened opened up an aperture of empathy for me later on, to feel for other people. It made me a better interviewer. It made me a better person. It made me a better woman. It made me a better friend. And so nothing is lost.

You say, I believe every one of us is born with a purpose. No matter who you are, what you do, or how far you think you have to go, you have been tapped by a force greater than yourself to step into your God given calling. Two questions for you on that. Do you think for someone who does not believe in a power greater than themselves, that they can feel fully worthy and that they can live the highest expression of themselves.

You cannot reach your fullest potential as a human being, the fullest expression of yourself without recognition that it's not just all about yourself. You just can't. If you think that you're just, you're the thing and you're the it, and the world's revolving around you, and that's it. Well, you will not. You will not reach the potential, because it is the recognition and the knowing and actually the awe and the wonder of it that leads you to the place that's higher than you. So we're always reaching for that place that's higher than ourselves. You can't get there. If you think it's just yourself, you can't. In 1985, when I went to do the first original color purple, one of the things I wrote in my journal was, God help me to have a life surrounded by beautiful things. This is 1985. I was just working on then. It was still called Am Chicago. But I just, I had this sense of desire and yearning for beauty. I had a desire and yearning to be surrounded by beauty. Beautiful things. Beautiful collaborations, the sense of creativity, the sense of, um, you know, God smiling on you. So when you, when you're sitting there looking at a bowl of flowers or even a bowl of lemons or, you know, branches beautifully arranged in a, in a, in a vase, you're looking at God smiling on you.

You're looking at the presence of nature, the presence of the life force being offered to you as a gift. And so I had a yearning for that. My heart and soul seeks that, and I recognize that. I miss beauty if I'm not around it, you know, so I don't. Mine is not a spirit or a personality that functions well in chaos. Some people thrive in it. Some people need the noise and the stuff and the thing. Mine is not a spirit that does well with that. And so I think, who is it that said, to thy own self, be true. To know yourself and to know what it is. The greatest people think it's about getting the job and getting the position and getting this thing and all that. It's going to make you worthy. What makes you worthy is to turn inward and to seek within and connect to the thing that is the source, source of you. However you define that.

There's so many people that are raised with a certain faith, and they quote scripture, all the things, and they are growing, but maybe scared to. And, you know, you've had this growth in your life and just hearing some of the things that you're sharing today about defining a higher power, all of that. Do you still have your favorite Bible verses? Do you feel like what you believe has changed? Do you still believe?

I feel that it's expanded.

Yeah.

So my favorite bible verse is psalms 37 four. Delight thyself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Now, when I first learned that as a young girl, it was all just, you know, means you love the Lord and you can get some of the things you want. And now I see that Bible verse as delight thyself in the Lord, delight thyself in goodness, delight thyself in kindness. Delight thyself in grace. Delight thyself in forgiveness. Delight thyself in all the things that the Lord is. Delight thyself in that. Lean into that and you will receive the desires of your heart. Delight. Because delight is actually my favorite word on earth, delight. It doesn't say be happy or even be joyous. It means delight in it. You are lifted by it. Delight in that which is good and gracious and kind and beautiful and bountiful, and you will receive the desires of your heart. It's where your focus lies. So I'm just telling you what really is so disturbing to me, Jamie, is that this is such an ego focused world now. Everybody is focused on what's going to make them look good instead of what actually is good for them.

And there is a huge difference. There's a huge difference in what you're presenting versus what you really are. And so the focus on what you really are, to turn inward to what you really are is what brings you all the things, you know, you get all the external when you've really worked on the internal.

I feel like you did that in such a big way and kind of shocking way when there's a season of time, a span of time, during the 25 years of the Oprah Winfrey show, when there was some other shows out there throwing chairs, having, like, chanting names, like, all the drama, getting huge ratings. And you could have done what a lot of people do, which is, okay, this will get me more of the thing the world celebrates at the moment, which in that case is typically ratings. I'm sure a lot of people were worried at that time when you made this decision to kind of take the show in a direction that was a force for good. And I feel like you've always been so far ahead of the time. Ahead of the time. I remember when you started doing, remembering your spirit. Oh, yeah, right. And you started talking about mindfulness.

Yeah.

And people freaked out.

They freaked out.

Freaked out.

All these stories Oprah trying to start her own church. What's she doing? She thinks she's Jesus. She thinks she's God. What are you doing? That was hurtful. But I stayed on the path.

I stayed on the path.

I stayed on the path because.

Stayed on the path. And remember one.

Yes. When I said we were going to be a force for good, please. All the station managers freaked out. They were saying, well, don't tell anybody you're going to be a force for good. Don't tell anybody.

Yeah.

So I understood that because I was so into it that I was expanding my own vision and ideas about what mindfulness and spirituality could be. I was learning it and so excited about learning it that I also wanted to teach it. And I could feel it having its impact in my life. And as you know, I believe life is better when you share it. And so I naturally just wanted to bring that to the audience, like, oh, my God, guys, let me tell you what happens if you get still. This is what happens if you give yourself a moment just to. And also because I was paying attention to the audience to the point where every audience member for ten years, I was signing autographs and just never looking up. Just signing, signing, signing, and not liking it one bit. And then one day, I couldn't do it because of a doctor's appointment. And I said, you know, I'm going to stop doing it because I have so much more energy. And then I started to do the thing that I now advise everybody else to do. Ask the question, what do I want? I don't want to sign autographs.

I signed autographs for ten years with every audience member, and I didn't want to do it. And then one day I asked myself the question, what do I want? Well, I would really rather just talk to people. I'd really rather just sit and have a conversation after every show and ask people, why did you come? How did you get here? Who did you come with? What's going on in your life? And that is another level of when the show took off. Cause that audience speaking to them every day about what was going on in their lives for 45 minutes after every show. Oh, my producers would be crazy. Like, oh, God, would she let the audience go? Cause we gotta get another audience in here. And I would do that twice a day just listening to people. Where'd you come from? Tennessee. Oh, we're from Nashville. We're from Rhode island. We came from Australia and listening to what was going on in their lives, and women started to say that they were looking for something more. I could hear them saying, you know, we did everything we're supposed to do. We went to college. We did all the things.

And now I feel like there's something. There's got to be something more. So I said to the producers, there's something to this, something more. Let's figure out what that is. Let's start asking the question for them and trying to come up with the answers of what people are looking for. And that is how remembering your spirit, connecting to sense of mindfulness. We were talking mindfulness, remembering your spirit, intention, meditation, all of that. At a time where people thought I was out of my mind.

They thought I was right now.

Now, everybody, you look at a reel, everybody's doing the whole thing. I was like, wow, I remember when this, when you were called cucumara for doing this. Yeah.

I mean, my grandma in her eighties uses the word mindfulness like, oh, my God, it's mainstream now. But I also see that pattern in so much of what you're sharing today that for a lot of people will be new or ahead of its time. I want to. I want to transition into one thing, but I think we need to make it a lot more purple in here first. All right, we got some purple mics. We got a whole lot of purple up in here.

We got a lot of purple up in here.

A lot of purple up in here. You have said nothing mattered to you more then the color purple, then the color purple. And for every woman who has felt unseen or unvalued, this is her story.

Well, you saw that trailer. I'm so glad. I feel that the color purple circle for me is. It's transcendent. I mean, I just can't even believe this happened me in this lifetime, as you've heard me say from the moment I read the book. July 1982, it was a Sunday. I got up, went back to the bookstore, bought multiple other books, gave them out the moment I opened the book. And the first lines are, dear God, I'm 14 years old. I've always been a good girl. That's my story. Please explain what's happening to me. That's my story. And I could not believe that there are words on a page that are reflecting my story. Somebody knows my story at 14, I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe it. First of all, those of you who are listening, you just have to imagine a world in 1982. There are no black shows. There are no black images. There are no black role models. There are no black magazine covers. There are no. There's nothing that reflects you in the world. You go to work and come and you never see a billboard or a bus, back of a bus.

Nothing that looks like you. I think maybe good times was on or something like that, or all in the family. God bless. Norman learned, but you are not being reflected on a regular basis in your work in any environment whatsoever. And so to pick up a book, which I loved books, the only other story I had read that had come close to reflecting me was Maya Angelou's I know why the caged birds sing. And I read that at 15. So in 1982, when I read this, I was now 28 years old, and there is my story on a page. I didn't know what to. I didn't know what to think. So that's why I went back to the bookstore and got all the other copies and passed them out to friends. And then I hear that there's going to be a movie. And that whole process of, how do I find a way to get in a movie? I don't know one single thing about movies or anybody in the movies. I then six months later, get a call. Quincy Jones was in Chicago and happened to be coming out of the shower and saw me on Am Chicago.

He had taken a red eye. Now, what would have happened had he not taken the red eye? What had happened if he had already spent the night and been in the room? I mean, so all those forces. I get a call saying, come and audition. I audition. I don't hear anything for two and a half months. When I call the casting agent, he says, real actresses of audition for this part. Do you know who just left my office? Alfre Woodard. Don't you call me. I'll call you. Reuben Cannon, who just the other day called and asked for tickets for the premiere. That same guy.

Wow.

That same guy. And didn't I get him tickets to the premier? So anyway, I go to this fat farm because I am, like, devastated. And I know that it's because I'm overweight and I'm praying on the track, and I'm crying and crying and crying, hoping that I can release it, because months have now passed. I've been shamed on the Tonight show by Joan Rivers. I have my first appearance on the Tonight show. And what? And, you know, they pre interview you before. So we're supposed to be talking about the great success of this little talk show in Chicago that's beating Phil Donahue. And Joan Rivers turns to me and she says, tell me, why are you so fat on national television? And I don't know what to do with that. I just am like, oh, I just. I just love potato chips. Joan, she goes, no, seriously, shame on you. Shame on you. She says on national television, on the Tonight show, my first appearance. So I agreed with Joan Rivers that I would. She says, I'll let you come back if you lose 15 pounds. You need to lose 15 pounds, she says to me on national television.

And I accepted. I accept that I should be shamed, because I should. How dare me be sitting up here on the Tonight show? And I had agreed that I was going to go away and lose 15 pounds. And of course, I didn't lose the 15 pounds. I went and ate my way to another ten pounds, so that by the time I got the call for color purple, by the time I called to say, you know, have you heard anything? After the audition, I thought, okay, I didn't get it because I was overweight. And that's why I left. And I went to this health retreat, which they were at the time. They call them fat farms. It's not me calling it. And I was on the track trying to release the let it, let me let it go, because this is. I'm obsessed with it. And I started singing, I surrender all of. I surrender all, all to thee, my blessed savior. I surrender all over and over and over and over and over again. I sang that song and prayed and cried. And when I stop and say, okay, I can let it go, I hadn't let it go.

I prayed and cried some more until I could bless Alfred Woodard with the role, because I know I thought, there's no way I'm going to get it. He said, alfred Woodard left his office. There's no way. And I wanted to be able to see the movie, but I want to be able to see the movie and not be upset that I didn't get it. So God help me, bless Alfred Woodard. And I cried and prayed some more. And then the moment I felt the release, the moment I felt the release, a woman comes running out and she says, there's a phone call for you. And that phone call from Steven Spielberg saying, I hear you're at a fat farm. If you lose a pound, you could lose this part. The fact that it happened in the instant, the instant I'd know I let it go was the greatest life lesson I have ever received, because I physically felt the release. And I saw that the second I did that, it changed. The second I stopped resisting, the second I stopped wondering, the second I stopped putting myself in the fear space and said, it is.

Well, use me how you choose to use me. I thought this was the answer, but now I see it's not. I'm willing to be open to wherever you take me. The instant I did that, I saw that woman. And so that became my grounding teaching for the rest of my life and career. Do everything you can. Work as hard as you can, and then let it go. Give it to God. Give it to the universe. Let it be an offering. Do not resist. Do not resist. Do not push against it. Let it go. And that was the great teaching. That was the great teaching that ruled every decision going forward. Do what you have to do. Let it go. Do what you have to do. Let it go. No attachment. Have no attachment to the outcome. And then when I lost track of that lesson, I got it again the hard way. I worked on beloved for ten years was attached to the outcome. Went into major depression afterwards. And why? Why did I go into depression? Because of my attachment. Not because the movie failed. Because my attachment to it succeeding, because the work was the work.

I loved every minute of the work, the process of the work, everything that I offered, I still loved that. I wouldn't change a thing. When I was offered an opportunity to change it, I said, no, I'm not gonna change it. They said, well, it's screening this way and people don't. I thought, I'm not gonna change it. So what was I attached to? I was attached to it being something that I wanted it to be versus what it really was. And so I learned from that experience. Back to your question. I learned from that experience after beloved. Never do anything with the attachment to how people are gonna receive it. Let the joy of doing it, let the joy of the process of the work and putting the workout into the world be your reward. And however people receive it, that becomes the bonus. But the work and the art, you wouldn't change anything about that. The real joy is in the offering.

In the color purple, one of the, the most powerful lines. Well, actually, let me ask you about Sophia first, when you played it. Yeah, that line in the cornfield.

Yeah. You told Harpo to beat me. All my life I had to fight. Mm hmm. All my life I had to fight. Had to fight. My uncles, my brothers. I never thought I had to fight. And I added my cousins because it was my cousin who raped me. All my life I had to fight. And that line I did in the first take, and I did it from the space of knowing a girl child ain't safe in a world full of men's. Which is the last line. Cause a girl child ain't safe in a world full of men's. And I know that to be so true. And that was. That was a great day for me. That was really a great day for me. The best. The best scene for me was the dinner table scene. Which takes a long time because you got all those actors at the table. But that's the day I actually became an actress, I think, because I only had one line. And then the rest of it, I ad libbed. I mean, the line was, how you doing, Miss Sophia? And she's supposed to nod and say, doing all right.

And then Steven said, tell us how you felt in the store when Miss Seely came to see you. Tell us. And so I just started rocking and ad libbing and saying, the day I seen you in that store. I know there was a God. I know there was a. So, I mean, let me just say this. The color purple. Aside from the fact that it taught me to surrender in all of my work and life. And to live a surrendered to God existence. So imagine that when you see me walking. You see a woman who surrendered her life to the higher power. So I'm stepping out on moonbeams and stars. I am literally walking in the light. Because I have lived a surrendered life. How the hell else do I get from Mississippi to Montecito as your next door neighbor? It just isn't possible without that. Okay? So it taught me that to live a surrendered life. Don't you dream the dream. Let God dream the dream for you. And you step into the dream. You ask God, what is the dream? What is your dream for me? Cause I'm open to go where you lead.

And so it's led me here, right across the fence from you, number two. Watching Steven Spielberg and Quincy Jones and Alice Walker every day. Beasts in that creative, collaborative space.

Wow.

Everybody, the crew around, everybody feeling like family. Working together to build something towards something. I thought, I never want a job. I never want a job or to work for anybody again. I want this feeling. I want this thing that I'm feeling. That you're feeling with your crew here. I want this feeling every day. I never want to feel like that. I want to always feel like even if I didn't get paid, I would be doing it. I had to give up my entire contracts vacation in order to do the film. So I had a contract for three years. My first year, I was only getting two weeks of vacation. The movie required me to be on set for two months. The only way I could negotiate to continue to do the movie, because my bosses at ABC, at the time, at AM Chicago, were like, you better get your ass back here. And I said, I will give up my entire vacation for the entire contract. I will never take another vacation if you let me finish this movie. And at the end of that deal, my attorney said, you never want to be in that position again.

And I said, I never want to be in that position. I don't want to be in that position again. And I had gone for audition, for the final audition, two universal Studios. And I met with Steven Spielberg. He's the one that told me that I had the part. He has a company called Amblin. He owned himself with Amblin Studios. Every movie you see Steven Spielberg's, you see the Amblin, you see a little boy, and you see the moon. And the whole thing. It never occurred to me you could own yourself. It never even occurred to me a person could own themselves. That gave me the idea that I could own myself. Giving up three years of my vacation, said, I never want to be in that position again. And that is how I came to own myself.

Wow. All woven through the color purple.

All woven through the color purple. So when I say it was the most life changing thing that ever happened to me, it defined my career.

How did it feel to go from getting that call and the track from Steven Spielberg to now co producing it with.

Well, I was so afraid during the whole movie. I mean, I didn't know how to act. I couldn't. I didn't know. I actually had books like Stanislavski's method and all that in my hotel room, motel room, trying to figure out, how do you act? I knew instinctively that you needed to tell the truth. You needed to be the truth. But I couldn't figure out, how do you act and also tell the truth the same time. And there was a really critical scene where he had asked me to cry, and I couldn't cry. And then I cried all night. And then Adolf Caesar, who played the old mister, came to my door because he could hear me through the walls and said, God damn it, what's all this noise? And I said, steven Spielberg asked me to cry, and I couldn't cry. And I know that he's going to throw me off the movie because this is the second time. And he said, you have to learn to give yourself over to the character. Let the character take control. You stop fighting it. It's not you. You surrender. Surrender, which I got. Surrender to the character.

Let the character take control, and if she wants to cry, she'll cry. And if she doesn't want to cry, not even steal steel work and make her cry. And that was my greatest acting lesson. And I was released after that day and not quite as fearful of Steven, but he never really talked to me or really. And I remember filming the scene in town where she, Sophia, hits the mayor and is thrown into jail, taken off my coat, going to Steven, saying, I won't be here the next two days because I'm going to sign my contract for my talk show. And he says, what is that? And I said, oh, I'm going to be doing a talk show. He goes like, radio or what is it? And I said, no, it's like real tv. And, you know, people say, I'm going to be famous, but I don't know, it's, you know, going to be like Donahue, but only it's going to be me. And he said, okay, well, when will you be back? I'll be back on Monday. But I wouldn't sign the contract. My name was not on the poster because I wasn't. But I said, and I said to him, you know, I think people are saying I'm gonna be famous, but you should probably put my name on the poster.

He says, your name can't go on the poster. Name can't go on the poster. That's already negotiated.

When Sug Avery says, I think it pisses God off when people walk by the color purple in a field and don't notice it.

And don't notice it.

Do you think it pisses God off when people walk by their own beauty and power and don't notice it?

I certainly think that the metaphor of not paying attention to the color purple because how complicated it is to make the color purple and how intricate and how beautiful it is and that all around you, you're surrounded by this beauty, intricacy in your own life, in your own body, just what it takes, pushing air in and out of your lungs on a regular basis, and you not paying attention to that. I think it's. I think the universe, if the universe could be disappointed, would be disappointed. I think the universe. I mean, I was just thinking recently that it's a. Human beings aren't doing such a good job right now. We as human beings are losing this battle of our own humanity. And it's really sad because you can see that it's lost to the egos. It's all about this sense of living externally and thinking that your value is in something that is outside of yourself.

The life lessons in color purple, from forgiveness to. You know. Everything you know is done to me is already done to him.

Well, everything you even try to do to me is already done to you. Well, that is. That is karma. That is the third law of motion in physics. That is the foundation for how I live my life. What you put out is going to come back. So you don't even have to worry about your enemies, because whatever. Whatever they're thinking, that's so mean. Spirit. And so the energy of that is coming back to them all the time. All the time. And you don't even have to do anything about it. So that is the truth. Everything you even try to do to me is already done to you.

Everyone seeing the color purple. I mean, tears filling the whole theaters, all kinds of life lessons. And I just want to ask you this question. For anyone who has not read the book, who has not seen the original.

Color purple, you don't have to do any of that.

Yeah.

Because the story itself will live and live beyond me and live beyond this generation and iteration of it. I mean, it was 40 years ago when I did it.

Yeah.

And I can't imagine what. You know, what I say and strongly believe is that the lessons of the purple, of the color purple, of forgiveness, mostly finding your own identity, discovering who you really are, that's what it's about. Discovering who you really are in connection with the life force that we call God, that Celie calls God. And that is timeless. That is forever. Not even AI can change it. That the heart of knowing who you are and what you have to offer the world, because ultimately, coming back to worthy, what Seelie's discovery is, a journey to worthiness, from the beginning to the end, is she finds her worthiness. She finds her value. And that path of self discovery, of self realization, of coming into the grace and giving herself the graciousness to thrive and not just survive as a victim, is what the story is all about, and that will endure forever. And I think, gonna be more needed than ever. I think, you know, technology and social media and all of the stuff and the things and the busyness of life cloud over how sad and lonely people really are. There's a lot of deep loneliness and sadness and disconnection, and it's why your book, worthy, is so valuable at this particular time, because all the stuff that people are putting out there in the way that it's being put out, they can't feel the worthiness.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing it. You can see it?

Yeah. Well, thank you for continuing to be a massive force for good in the world, for putting goodness out there. Thank you for doing this show. Why did you say yes? How are you here? Your process for discernment is so clear.

I think, and, well, why did I say yes to you?

Yes.

I actually feel that it was somehow divinely ordered. I feel that from the first time that my assistant at the time, Amy Wineblum, brought you back to see me, and I could feel your heart. I could feel your yearning, your desire. I could feel your, I remember the first time you told me that you wanted to have a talk show, and I was like, okay, well, do you even know what you're asking for with that? And when I look at the work that you're doing in the world, I think when you say you wanted to do a talk show, I think it's because obviously I've been a model for that and I've been a model for how you can do it really well. May I say, we did that thing. But what you really want is a platform in order to speak to the world, to help the world to know itself better and in whatever form that shows itself. And so it happens to be now this form, at some point, it may be another form, but I can feel that. I can feel the truth of that, the earnestness of that, the sincerity of that, and I wanted to support that.

Thank you.

And that is why I said yes.

Thank you for seeing me. Thank you for believing in me. Make sure to see the color purple. And if this episode added value to you, my only ask is that you share it. Share it with people you care about. Post and share it on social media and tag me Amykern Lima so that I can repost it. The Jamie Kern Lima show is your show. And let's spread the word and be a force for good together. And make sure you subscribe to the Jamie Kern Lima show and click the notifications buttonhouse so that you'll be the very first to know when there's a new episode. I just want to say thank you so much for joining me today. And before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You are worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. World. And it's an honor to welcome you to each episode. Jamie Kunlima show here. I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need blossom what you choose.

Journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love and I love you. You spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarnlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie Weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekarnlima.com or in the link in the show notes this show is presented solely for entertainment purposes only. It's not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, professional, coach or other qualified professional.

I hope you enjoyed this episode and conversation together, and I am so grateful to be on this journey with you. And did you know? For every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show, there are a set of special prompt questions just for you. To help you on your journey of aha moments and revelations in your own life. From each episode, make sure you join my free email newsletter@jamiekernlima.com to get them sent to you each week. And each episode is meant to be evergreen and packed with timeless life lessons so you can go back and listen to past episodes you perhaps haven't heard yet. As we are going on this incredible journey of building self worth and living our best lives together.